Traffic Commissioners (Hansard, 20 July 1977)

§ 5. Mr. Hurd
asked the Secretary of State for Transport when he proposes to make definite proposals for reducing the powers and accelerating the procedures of the traffic commissioners.

§ Mr. Horam
The transport policy White Paper proposes legislation to require the traffic commissioners to have regard to counties' and regions' policies and plans for public transport; to release community buses from public service vehicle and driver licensing; to improve the streamlined procedures in Section 30 of the Transport Act 1968; and to remove certain restrictions regarding car sharing.

§ Mr. Hurd
That is welcome, but when shall we see the precise proposals? Is the Minister aware that our recent experience with the traffic commissioners in Oxfordshire is one of almost incredible delay followed by decisions that seem to show much more concern for the established vested interests in transport than for the actual needs of the towns and villages?

§ Mr. Horam
We shall be consulting very shortly on the details of the general proposals that we outlined in the White Paper. In fact, the consultation procedures will start within the next week or so. We shall have detailed proposals after that. The case in Oxfordshire was certainly a big one. That is why it took so long to hear. In no other case in the last three years in the East Midlands have sessions lasted more than two days, so this case was totally exceptional, because it was considering the whole question of transport in the county. The conclusion of the traffic commissioners was that the Oxfordshire County Council had failed in its statutory duty to promote the provision of a co-ordinated and efficient system of public transport.

§ Mr. Moate
When the Government now call for general modification of the bus licensing laws and when the Secretary of State is indicting his predecessors and his own Government for their action in 1974 in abandoning Conservative proposals that they had previously supported when in Opposition, what on earth have the present Government been doing over 1578 the last three years? Will the hon. Gentleman at least assure us that legislation to this effect will be introduced next Session?

§ Mr. Horam
No. My right hon. Friend is carrying on the great record of Labour policy in this area. The previous Labour Government were the last Government to introduce significant changes in the bus licensing system. My right hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn (Mrs. Castle) introduced the only serious and important changes for some time. Over the last 15 years no Conservative Government have achieved anything in this area. I am sure that we shall achieve more, and, of course, we shall go to legislation as soon as we can.

§ Mr. Fry
Does the Minister agree that there is a very good case for considering the powers of the traffic commissioners in relation to fares? At present, the work of the commissioners is very much a rubber-stamping operation. Should not their rôle in relation to fares be transferred to county councils, which, after all, are responsible for deciding the level of subsidy for local public transport?

§ Mr. Horam
As we have said in the White Paper, we shall require the traffic commissioners to have regard to counties' plans, and fares will be a very important part of their plans, so by this means we hope to achieve, without a drastic upheaval, which we think would be disadvantageous, the sort of ideas about which the hon. Gentleman cares.