HC Deb 01 February 1977 vol 925 cc221-4
Q 1. Mr. Ovenden

asked the Prime Minister if he will list his official engagements for 1st February.

The Prime Minister (Mr. James Callaghan)

In addition to my duties in this House, I shall be holding meetings with ministerial colleagues and others.

Mr. Ovenden

Will my right hon. Friend hold discussions with the Leader of the House about the Scotland and Wales Bill? If he does, will he arrange for a statement to be made afterwards clarifying the Government's position on the question of representation of Wales and Scotland in this House?

The Prime Minister

The question of the representation of Scotland and Wales in this House is not related to the Scotland and Wales Bill. It can be settled only by this House, and, in accordance with precedent, would be settled only following a Speaker's Conference. I have no doubt that some hon. Members might want to use arguments deriving from the passage of the Scotland and Wales Bill to support such a change, but that would be an entirely separate matter.

Mrs. Thatcher

As one of the Prime Minister's engagements on Tuesdays is to answer Questions in this House, will he take the opportunity to resolve an apparent inconsistency between his statement on the Bullock Report and the statement by the Secretary of State for Trade? Will he say whether, in his view, he has an obligation under the social contract, regardless of consultation, to legislate for the central proposal of the Bullock Report, which is to put trade union nominees on to company boards?

The Prime Minister

The obligation that the Government entered into with the people at the last General Election was to introduce a measure of industrial democracy. That we shall do, and, as we have already said, we shall enter into those discussions, as might be expected, on the basis of the majority report of Bullock. [Interruption.] There would be a great deal of complaint if one normally entered discussions on the basis of a minority report. There will now be a period of consultation, and the Government's legislative proposals will in due course be laid before the House. There is no conflict between anything that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade has said and what I have said on this matter.

Mrs. Thatcher

The right hon. Gentleman's proposals are not for industrial democracy but for industrial apartheid. Has he decided to exclude the right of non-trade union members either to choose who goes on the board or to be chosen to go on the board themselves?

The Prime Minister

When the right hon. Lady refers to what she calls "the right hon. Gentleman's proposals", it shows clearly that she has neither read nor understood what has been said so far. If she disagrees, perhaps she will tell me why. The only proposals so far have come from the Bullock Committee in the form of a majority report and a minority report. The Government have said that they will enter into consultations on the basis of the majority report. When we have had those consultations, we shall bring forward our legislative proposals. I hope that the right hon. Lady can understand that it is a perfectly simple proposition. With regard to her particular phrases, I would welcome it if on some occasions she would condemn apartheid in the country where it really occurs.

Mrs. Thatcher

But the Secretary of State for Trade has said that he is consulting on the basis of the minority report as well. Is that so, or is it not?

The Prime Minister

The Government's consultations are on the basis of the majority report. I have received a letter from the CBI in which it indicates that it will want to put forward certain proposals to me. It may well want to discuss the minority report. We shall, of course, be ready to discuss the minority report and, indeed, any other ideas that may come forward. That is what consultation is about.

Mrs. Wise

Will my right hon. Friend find time to call on the Chairman of the Health and Safety Commission and tell him that the Government have decided to bring in the early implementation of the safety representative provisions after all? Does my right hon. Friend agree that any serious extension of industrial democracy also depends on the implementation of these regulations?

The Prime Minister

It is not often that I can give an answer that satisfies my hon. Friend, but in case she was not present earlier I can tell her that the Under-Secretary of State for Employment announced that the Government will bring forward the health and safety regulations forthwith to be implemented on 1st October 1978. Of course, if voluntary arrangements are made earlier that will be so much the better. There is nothing to prevent that from happening, once the regulations are on the statute book. With regard to the connection with industrial democracy, I also agree with my hon. Friend that this is part of industrial democracy and should be seen as such.