HC Deb 03 November 1976 vol 918 cc1405-7
26. Mr. Cyril Smith

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment which authorities have undertaken building-for-sale housing programmes during the last five years; what was the cost to public funds of each programme after sales were completed; what would be the cost of providing rented accommodation on similar scales; what proportion of sales in each case was achieved by way of local authority mortgages; and what proportion of buyers had been local authority tenants immediately prior to purchase.

Mr. Freeson

Table 13 of "Local Housing Statistics" No. 37 and earlier issues, copies of which are available in the Library, give a breakdown of sales of dwellings owned by each local authority in England and Wales and identify those which were built for sale. I regret that the further information requested by the hon. Gentleman is not readily available.

Mr. Smith

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the happy experience of the Liverpool City Council in building houses for sale? Will he undertake to examine that experience? If he is satisfied that it is a happy one—my right hon. and hon. Friends are so satisfied—will he undertake to advocate it to other local authorities for their consideration?

Mr. Freeson

One of the troubles with orchestrating the kind of programme of questions that we have had today from the Liberal Bench is that one turns out to be a little precipitate in some of the observations. As I understand it, the houses in question in Liverpool have not yet been built, so one can hardly be happy about it. [Interruption.] Secondly, I would consider it far more important—[Interruption.] I would consider it far more important for the Liberal Member who is interrupting me to speak to his colleagues in Liverpool and explain to us in the Department and to other people why so few houses were built by his Liberal friends in Liverpool last year.

Mr. Heffer

Does my right hon. Friend accept that the statement made by the hon. Member for Rochdale (Mr. Smith) is utter nonsense? There are 25,000 people on the housing register in Liverpool who need houses to rent. They cannot afford to buy houses. They require those houses because they are living in very serious circumstances. Does my right hon. Friend agree that in Liverpool we need houses to rent rather than houses for sale, and that Liverpool City Council—[HON. MEMBERS: "Speech."]—prior to the accession of the Labour majority, failed to build the houses that were needed by the people?

Mr. Freeson

My own view, as indicated in policy circulars that we have issued, is that public enterprise must get involved in providing a much greater variety of different kinds of tenure down market than has been the case in the past, whether they be for rent, for co-operative housing or for low-cost housing for sale. What concerns me with regard to Liverpool is my hon. Friend's reference to recent history prior to the last elections. A great deal of paper has been pouring out from the Liverpool City authority in recent years, but very few dwellings indeed, either for rent or for sale.

Mr. Michael Morris

Is the Minister aware that his reply to the hon. Member for Rochdale (Mr. Smith) was inaccurate? I visited Liverpool during the recess. What the hon. Member for Rochdale says is fact, and as a Minister of the Crown the right hon. Gentleman ought to get his facts straight before he denies the contents of a question.

Mr. Freeson

I am pleased to hear that the hon. Gentleman has been to Merseyside and Liverpool and has discovered all the happy people who are so satisfied with the building record of the friends of the hon. Member for Rochdale (Mr. Smith). I have met many people who are far from satisfied with the results of that period of office.