RHODESIA (Hansard, 2 March 1976)

The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr. James Callaghan)
I will, with your permission, Mr. Speaker, and that of the House, make a Statement on Lord Greenhill's recent visit to Rhodesia.
My right hon. Friend the Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs told the House on 24th February that the purpose of Lord Greenhill's mission was exploratory: to assess whether attitudes had changed to the point where there might be a genuine possibility of the British Government's helping to promote a settlement providing for an early and orderly transfer of power in Rhodesia.
Lord Greenhill arrived in Salisbury in the early hours of Thursday 26th February, and left again on the afternoon of the following day. During his stay, he 1098 had two meetings with Mr. Smith and one with Mr. Nkomo and some of his colleagues.
I received Lord Greenhill's report over the weekend and discussed it with him yesterday. He did not bring back any constitutional proposals, for that was not his purpose. But he did bring back the assessment of attitudes for which I asked and which I am now considering. Let me make clear once again that our objective is an early transition to majority rule by peaceful means. In the light of what Lord Greenhill has told me I am considering whether there is anything we can usefully do to help achieve this end. These are serious days for Rhodesia and there must be adequate time for consideration. I shall inform the House of my conclusions.
I should like on behalf of Her Majesty's Government to renew my thanks to Lord Greenhill for undertaking this mission.

§ Mr. Tugendhat
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we appreciate that he wants to tread carefully and not to endanger whatever chances of success there may be? However, does he agree that those who play with time are now running out of that precious commodity, and that there is an urgent need for an early move if the transition is to be peaceful? Will he confirm the Press reports that Lord Greenhill also met some white business men?
Will the right hon. Gentleman say anything about the mood of the white community? There have been encouraging reports that it is now much more flexible than in the past. To that extent we appreciate that the right hon. Gentleman is considering whether there is anything we can do to help. Although we must not exaggerate Britain's influence in this situation, it may well be that once the principle of majority rule is accepted we might be able to do much to reconcile the whites to the change in the situation and to get the new country off to a good start.

Mr. Callaghan
I am obliged to the hon. Gentleman for what he has said. I agree entirely that those who play with time are finding that that commodity is getting increasingly scarce. The whole situation would be transformed if Mr. Smith said to his European followers that the time had come to accept the principle 1099 of majority rule and that he intended to enter into negotiations for an orderly transfer of power. If he said that, I believe that the position of the Europeans in Rhodesia would be much better safeguarded than by anything else that can be done.
Lord Greenhill met a group of white business men and, I believe, some black business men. I cannot say anything about the attitudes that he found at those meetings. He reported to me generally.

§ Mr. David Steel
Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether there is any greater awareness now among the Rhodcsian regime, or the white minority in Rhodcsia, of the reality of what is going on around them in Africa, and whether there is a recognition that the alternative is either a quick transfer towards majority rule or an armed struggle? Did Lord Greenhill raise the question of the future role of Mr. Garfield Todd? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that most of us in the House view with some concern the fact that Mr. Todd, having been here for three weeks, is apparently returning to detention?

Mr. Callaghan
No, Lord Greenhill did not raise the question of Mr. Todd. Mr. Nkomo said that he would like him to be associated with his negotiations. I do not think that anything Lord Green-hill could have done would have assisted in that regard.
I fear that I must leave the House in some dubiety regarding the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question. The House must draw its own conclusions. There was some encouragement yesterday, although I have no idea what went on. The important things is that Mr. Smith should say quite simply to his European followers that they must accept the need for an African majority. Once he says that, many other things will begin to be much easier. So far he has not said that.

§ Mr. Luard
Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the willingness of Mr. Smith to seek a settlement depends now as always, and above all, on the attitude of the South African Government and the degree to which they will apply United Nations sanctions? Will he tell us whether he is seeking to bring home to that Government how urgently necessary 1100 it is, for their own sake as well as that of Rhodesia, to ensure that Mr. Smith appreciates the necessity of bringing about a settlement as early as possible?

Mr. Callaghan
I think that the influence of the South African Government is very great, but it is not the dominant factor. Mr. Smith is his own man and will go his own way. I am still not quite sure whether he is to go to Heaven or perdition.

§ Mr. William Hamilton
We are.

Mr. Callaghan
That may be, but Mr. Smith has the capacity to carry the Europeans with him if he will once make the great mental leap that is necessary. He could then salve his own reputation for his past misdeeds and safeguard the future of the Europeans in Rhodesia. I do not know whether that is possible. That is why I say that we must wait and see. There is nothing in his record to indicate that he is willing to take that action. We have done our best to impress the facts of the situation on the South African Government. As I think is known, one of my senior officials was there not so long ago.

§ Mr. Powell
Will the right hon. Gentleman ensure that any help which is proffered or afforded by the United Kingdom does not involve or imply any kind of commitment which this country is unwilling or unable to sustain?

Mr. Callaghan
That is a general statement which, of course, I accept. However, there are clearly circumstances in which if there were an agreement on majority rule, and the manner of its implementation, the House would want to assist in the attainment of that objective, an objective for which the House has stood for so long.

§ Mr. Rose
Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that as force was ruled out by the Prime Minister after UDI, there will be no British military connection during these explorations or negotiations to pull Mr. Smith's chestnuts out of the fire after a decade of defiance by the tiny white minority in Rhodesia?

Mr. Callaghan
With respect, I cannot see the force of that question. I cannot imagine any British Government, whether from this side of the House or 1101 the other, putting in armed force to support Mr. Smith in a course which is undoubtedly wrong and in a war which he will undoubtedly lose.

§ Sir G. Sinclair
Is the Secretary of State confident that negotiations are taking place between Mr. Ian Smith and the competent African parties? By competent, I mean parties representing the main underlying African political forces seeking majority rule.

Mr. Callaghan
It is not for me to judge who should be involved in the negotiations which are being undertaken by Mr. Nkomo and Mr. Smith. There is no doubt that there are many forces outside Rhodesia who have a part to play, and whose influence will grow the longer that the talks between Mr. Smith and Mr. Nkomo are unsettled. They will grow in the direction of a growing guerrilla war. I believe that that is understood, but it should be made clear to the European population.

§ Dr. Dickson Mabon
In contrast to what Bishop Muzorewa said last week, is it the case that Mr. Nkomo accepts that there is a locus for the British Government in relation to the negotiations going on between him and Mr. Ian Smith? Was there any prior information given to Lord Greenhill about the so-called breakthrough in the talks that we heard about yesterday?

Mr. Callaghan
No, Sir. No information was given to Lord Greenhill about that matter. I have no idea what passed between the two.
In regard to the locus of the British Government, it is true that Mr. Nkomo and the four African Presidents have always been anxious that Britain should play a greater part in this matter. I wish to make clear, in view of the way in which some of this information came out of Salisbury, that the first approaches indicating that Mr. Smith would like the British Government to play a part came from Mr. Smith, not from me. I hope that that is clearly understood.
The House will appreciate that I am proceeding cautiously and warily in this matter. We did not start these negotiations between Mr. Smith and Mr. Nkomo. We do not know to what extent both sides 1102 are fully represented. We want to secure the transfer of power to the African majority by peaceful means as quickly as possible and in as orderly a way as possible.

§ Mr. Amery
In the event of Mr. Smith and Mr. Nkomo reaching agreement leading to a provisional Government and a period of transition, is the Foreign Secretary prepared to say that in such an event Her Majesty's Government will give all possible support, moral, material and if necessary military, to protect Rhodesia against invasion from outside?

Mr. Callaghan
Any question that begins with the phrase "in the event of" is clearly hypothetical and is not intended for answer by me from this Dispatch Box.

§ Mr. Ioan Evans
Although everybody realises that majority rule should be obtained by peaceful means and as early as possible, will it not be obtained by other means if Smith does not settle the issue quickly? As well as keeping the House informed, will my right hon. Friend keep informed such leaders of African countries as Sir Seretse Khama, Mr. Kaunda, Mr. Nyere, Mr. Machel and Mr. Neto?

Mr. Callaghan
My hon. Friend is right to believe that if and when the talks break down there will be a growing acceleration of military activity. No doubt that can be contained by the European forces for a time—I emphasise "for a time"—but in the end they will not prevail. That is the reality of the situation. It is not a question of what anybody wants but of what will happen. When one is dealing from this Dispatch Box with the future of Africans and Europeans, one must deal in facts, not in wishes. It is my profound wish, and I imagine it is the wish of nearly everybody in this House, that Africans and Europeans should have a peaceful future in Rhodesia. That must be our objective.
As for the question of keeping African Presidents informed, certainly, Sir that will happen. They have a great deal of influence in this situation and we must march in step with them as far as possible, although clearly we must reserve our own freedom of action. I was fortunate enough to have conversations with Sir Seretse Khama only last Friday.

§ Sir D. Walker-Smith
Has the right hon. Gentleman been able to form any impression, with the assistance of Lord Greenhill's report, about the likelihood of the transfer of power to the African majority being followed by a genuine pluralistic democracy? Would not assurances on this point be of great value in leading to an acceptance of the position, as there are unfortunate precedents to the contrary in the Continent of Africa?

Mr. Callaghan
Yes, Sir, there are, but I have not yet been able to form an opinion whether the Europeans in Rhodesia and the régime there are ready to come to terms with the facts of the situation. Until they do so and acknowledge that there is an inevitability of a rapid transfer of power to the African majority—and that will come either by negotiation or through guerrilla activity—I do not think that we shall be able to proceed on to those further calculations.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. We cannot debate the matter now.