HC Deb 07 July 1976 vol 914 cc1362-4
36. Mr. Hastings

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions took place at the recent meeting of EEC Ministers on European defence; and what is the policy of Her Majesty's Government with regard to the defence of the European Community.

Mr. Hattersley

None of the recent meetings of EEC Ministers has discussed defence. Defence is not mentioned in the Treaty of Rome and the defence of Europe rests, in the view of Her Majesty's Government, firmly upon the North Atlantic Alliance.

Mr. Hastings

If Her Majesty's Government wish the Community to be consolidated and to succeed, does not the right hon. Gentleman agree with me that the integration and strengthening of the defence of the Community is vital?

Mr. Hattersley

No, Sir. There are substantial arguments against that, not least the practical argument of the impossibility of organising a defence community which includes two countries whose relationships with NATO are not such as to enable them to play a full part in the Alliance. There are also arguments against it in principle. If the hon. Gentleman does not share those arguments with me, I hope he will accept that, while France remains in her present relationship with the Alliance and the Republic of Ireland is not a member of the NATO Alliance, the idea that progress can be made is pie in the sky.

Mr. Jay

As my right hon. Friend rightly points out, defence is a matter for NATO, not for the EEC. Has he any indication that the French Government will show themselves to be good Europeans and resume full activity in NATO?

Mr. Hattersley

My right hon. Friend redefines a "good European" from time to time, depending on his supplementary question. The idea that playing a part in an integrated structure of NATO makes one a good European is probably not an argument which is totally attractive in Washington.

Mr. Tugendhat

Does the Minister agree that it is impossible to separate defence and industrial policy, that the impact of large defence projects, especially in aviation and weaponry, makes it impossible to separate them, and that, as the European Parliament has shown, the European Community has to become involved in defence sooner or later, preferably sooner?

Mr. Hattersley

If I may say so, the hon. Gentleman is making the classical European mistake of constructing constitutions in theory rather than responding to life in practice. Life in practice demonstrates that the sort of defence which is necessary for Europe and the partnership of the European Powers and North America is best carried out in NATO and not within an extended and changed EEC.