HC Deb 15 January 1976 vol 903 cc559-60
2. Mr. Peter Morrison

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the recent report, he remains satisfied with the penalties for crimes of vandalism and violence.

The Minister of State, Home Office (Mr. Alexander W. Lyon)

We do not think that the problem lies with the penalties available to the courts, which are already substantial.

Mr. Morrison

Is the Minister aware that there is genuine concern about the increase in vandalism? Does he not agree that the parents of young offenders should be held responsible to the extent that they should be forced to pay compensation to those whose property has been vandalised?

Mr. Lyon

We are aware of the concern and share it. It was for that reason that we set up the working party, the report of which the hon. Gentleman mentions in his Question. That report tries to mobilise public opinion in order to inhibit the spread of this kind of hooliganism. In this respect the powers of juvenile courts are adequate. It is simply a question of using them.

Mr. Lipton

Can my hon. Friend justify the actions of a magistrate in a recent case in allowing a man convicted of theft to keep £300 or £400 worth of goods that he had stolen?

Mr. Lyon

If my hon. Friend applies himself to the specific facts of that case, he will find that the magistrate's conclusion was justified. However, it is no part of my job to comment on the decisions of the judiciary.

Mr. Rees-Davies

Assuming that the penalties in respect of vandalism are sufficient as a matter of law, what efforts is the Home Secretary making to ensure that there is proper payment of compensation by vandals, so that if they are ordered to pay, they pay? I understand that a considerable amount of money is outstanding in respect of the imposition by the courts of orders for the payment of compensation.

Mr. Lyon

I am sure that the hon. and learned Gentleman knows that there are adequate powers now for the courts to order compensation in all cases. It is simply a question of collecting the money. As he indicates, in a number of cases where compensation orders were made there has been great difficulty in getting the money, because those ordered had not the means to provide it.

Mr. Marten

Does not the Minister agree that for vandalism and violence a short, sharp term in a detention centre which specialises in discipline and control would often be a very good thing? Do we have enough detention centres to extend sentences towards that end?

Mr. Lyon

I suppose that whether we have enough detention centres is a matter of one's view of when detention is the appropriate sentence. The appropriate sentence is for the courts. We have done our best to provide an increased number of juvenile detention centres and the numbers have increased substantially in recent years. However, magistrates occasionally complain that they do not have enough places available. All I can say is that the availability of space now in detention centres is very much more than it was some years ago.