§ 1. Mr. Ioan Evansasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what consideration is being given to alternatives to prison as a form of punishment.
§ 23. Mr. Kilroy-Silkasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what progress he is making in finding alternatives to prison.
§ The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Roy Jenkins)A wide range of powers to pass sentences alternative to imprisonment is now available to the courts. While I do not rule out the possibility of fresh powers, the main task now is to develop facilities to match the powers that already exist. Good progress is being made in developing community service in particular, and it is now available in all or part of 49 out of 56 probation areas in England and Wales.
§ Mr. EvansI thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. I recognise that the courts have the opportunity to give suspended sentences and other alternatives. However, does my right hon. Friend realise that magistrates are in the difficult position of receiving advice from various Lord Chancellors suggesting that they should be reluctant to give prison sentences, and that at the same time the public are demanding that magistrates' courts should be more severe in their sentencing? In view of the tremendous public expense incurred by keeping people incarcerated in prison, will my right hon. Friend look at the possibility of setting 558 up other schemes as well as the Community Work Scheme to ensure that people can make a contribution to redress what they have done to society rather than just be kept in prison for long periods?
§ Mr. JenkinsYes, indeed. There is a range of possibilities. In particular, there is community service. There are four day training centres, which are at a more experimental stage, situated in Liverpool, Sheffield, London and Pontypridd. There are also the suspended sentence and certain other ranges of penalties.
It is wrong, as the House agrees, for the Executive to dictate to the courts, although it is reasonable to give some general indication of reasonable procedure. It is certainly the case that prison is expensive and that there are many people in prison. However, it is also the case that there are people who come before magistrates' courts and higher courts for whom there is no alternative but prison.
§ Mr. Graham PageIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that one of my constituents in a short period has collected 250,000 signatures to a petition to bring back the birch? Will the right hon. Gentleman support the Second Reading of the Corporal Punishment Bill on 20th February, a Bill which I have presented and which aims at bringing back the birch?
§ Mr. JenkinsNo, I shall take the view that every Home Secretary has taken, including Home Secretaries in at least four Governments which the right hon. Member for Crosby (Mr. Page) has supported.
§ Mr. Kilroy-SilkWill my right hon. Friend accept that it is desirable to extend the alternatives to prison, particularly for juveniles, and that in doing so it is crucial that the proper resources be committed to non-custodial measures? Will he not accept that any attempt to reduce the prison population on the cheap will lead only to an increase in the failure rate of non-custodial measures and discredit desirable alternatives to prison?
§ Mr. JenkinsYes. It would be quite wrong to try to carry out non-custodial measures on the cheap. The restraints on public expenditure imply that there must be some limit on how fast I or any Home 559 Secretary can advance in this area. However, within the resources available I shall do what I can.
§ Mr. GryllsCan the right hon. Gentleman say what percentage of those who are given community service sentences commit further offences later?
§ Mr. JenkinsNo, not without notice.