HC Deb 24 February 1976 vol 906 cc165-7
3. Mr. Peter Morrison

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services when she last met representatives of the pensioners' organisations; and if she will make a statement.

14. Mr. Lane

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services when she last met representatives of the pensioners' organisations; and if she will make a statement.

The Minister of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Mr. Brian O'Malley)

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State met representatives of the British Pensioners' and Trades Unions Action Committee on 27th September 1975. On 28th October 1975 she received a deputation from the National Federation of Old Age Pensions Associations.

Mr. Morrison

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a single woman or widow aged 60, whose only income is her pension, is now above the income tax threshhold? What representations has he made to the Chancellor of the Exchequer on this matter?

Mr. O'Malley

That supplementary question should be addressed to the Chancellor of the Exchequer who, in recent statements, has indicated his awareness of the type of problem to which the hon. Member refers.

Mr. Skinner

Although we appreciate that strong attempts have been made in the Cabinet recently to oppose any massive cuts in his Department's expenditure, does my right hon. Friend realise that the difficulties for pensioners lie not just in some of the matters affected by the White Paper dealing with public expenditure? Does he appreciate they are also affected by nationalised industries' prices, the lack of home helps, bus and rail fares, and many other things, and that they did not get the £6 pay increase in the autumn?

Mr. O'Malley

The whole House—certainly this applies to hon. Members on the Government side—agrees on the need progressively to increase the real level of retirement pensions to bring to an end the massive dependence on means testing which is a characteristic of life today. It is significant that during the lifetime of this Government, pensions have risen substantially faster than prices.

Mr. Lane

As many pensioners are still worried about rocketing prices in the shops—whatever the official statistics may say—how soon can they expect a Government announcement on the timing and amount of the next uprating?

Mr. O'Malley

If the hon. Member does not rely on the official statistics that have been accepted by successive Governments, I wonder what kind of subjective judgement he makes. It is significant and welcome that inflation over the second half of 1975 was running at about half the rate for 1975 as a whole, and we are therefore well on target to reach the Government's aim of reducing inflation below double figures by the end of 1976.

Mr. James Lamond

Does my right hon. Friend recall that in the White Paper issued last week a sum of £150 million a year in round figures is allocated for the progressive upgrading of pensions so that they may draw nearer to the proportion of average earnings that we wish them to be?

Mr. O'Malley

As my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer made clear, the position of pensioners is fully protected under the terms of the White Paper published last week.

Mr. Kenneth Clarke

When the right hon. Gentleman last met pensioners' organisations did he tell them that the Government intended to go back on the decision that Parliament forced on them last year to raise the earnings rule by £15 a week next year? Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that the White Paper proposals will reduce the real value of the earnings rule in 1976–77?

Mr. O'Malley

That is a piece of impudence from a party that tells us that the public expenditure cuts are not large enough and wants even larger cuts, which would inevitably increase unemployment. Any sane man or woman looking at the economic and financial circumstances of the country recognises that we have to take into account priorities, and that we have promised to dynamise the £35 earnings limit that will be reached in April 1976.