HC Deb 24 February 1976 vol 906 cc167-9
4. Mr. Boscawen

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if she will review the level of the additional heating allowance to supplementary and other benefits.

The Under-Secretary of State for Social Services (Mr. Michael Meacher)

Extra heating additions are payable only with supplementary benefit, under discretionary powers of the Supplementary Benefits Commission, which keeps the amounts of these additions under continuing review.

Mr. Boscawen

If the scale allowance for heating was sufficient last November to cover normal expenditure, will it be sufficient when the cost of electricity is shortly increased by 12 per cent.? If it was sufficient last November, why was it necessary for the Secretary of State for Energy to give a piece of cynical advice to elderly pensioners by telling them that they could burn fuel now and pay their bills later?

Mr. Meacher

The advice that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Energy gave to the fuel boards was widely welcomed throughout the country, certainly amongst pensioners. On the question of the level of the scale rate for supplementary benefits, the rates for national insurance and supplementary benefits have kept in line with earnings and have risen substantially faster than prices since the Government came to power. As a result, about £1,000 million extra, in real terms, has been put into the hands of pensioners. Furthermore, the extra additions over and above the scale rate of supplementary benefits have increased even faster under this Government—by 83 per cent.

Mr. Gould

Has my right hon. Friend seen in today's Press a report of the speech made by the Chairman of the Supplementary Benefits Commission to the effect that the basic entitlement rates of supplementary benefit should be raised so as to reduce the discretionary element? Is that not in line with the more fundamental point made by the Child Poverty Act Group, that we should be following a policy of "back to Beveridge" so as to reduce means testing to a minimum?

Mr. Meacher

We are awaiting the recommendations that the Supplementary Benefits Commission will make to the Government. I cannot, therefore, comment on the Press report. On the general question of raising the scale rates so as to reduce discretion, the increase in the scope of discretionary powers in the hands of the Supplementary Benefits Commission has caused concern to the Commission. We have to decide on the general question of the level of scale rates and whether the increase in line with earnings since 1948 is sufficient or a more general review is needed.

Mrs. Bain

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that many people regard the process of going to the Supplementary Benefits Commission as a humiliating process? Is he aware that letters have appeared in the Scottish Press suggesting that old folk would rather freeze to death than go through that process? Is the Minister satisfied with the take-up of supplementary benefits?

Mr. Meacher

The evidence to which the hon. Lady alludes is entirely contrary to the substantial increase in the number of elderly people who are now in receipt of extra heating additions. The latest provisional estimate is that the number is nearly 1 million—970,000—which, if it is correct, is 23 per cent. above the level of seven months ago. That indicates considerable success for the Commission in getting old people to claim their rights.

Mr. Heffer

Does my hon. Friend realise that there are old people who, although they are happy that their gas and electricity will not be cut off, have bills of up to £100 or £150 which they will eventually have to pay? What are the Government doing about that? There is no point in the Secretary of State for Energy telling us something if complementary arrangements have not been made to meet the bills of those old people.

Mr. Meacher

I accept the general point that my hon. Friend made. On our side we have been concerned to provide a policy that is complementary to the policy of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Energy, which we welcome. That policy is a better form of liaison between the Supplementary Benefits Commission and the fuel boards. If supplementary benefit recipients in exceptional circumstances are having difficulties with fuel payments, exceptional needs payments are made available. If there are not exceptional circumstances, but if hardship would arise from disconnection, new arrangements have recently been implemented for deductions from the allowance, week by week, to ensure that large lump payments are avoided. That is a condition for ensuring that there is no disconnection.

Mr. Ridsdale

Is the Minister aware that old people, unlike the Government, like to live within their incomes? In my part of the world, where there are considerable numbers of old people, there is a strong force of opinion in favour of an increase in the supplementary allowance rather than the offer of credit.

Mr. Meacher

That is why I said that special arrangements will be made for weekly or monthly payments, to get over the problem of very large payments having to be made at fairly irregular intervals.