Aircraft and Shipbuilding Industries

HC Deb 13 December 1976 vol 922 cc951-3

10. Mr. Adley

asked the Secretary of State for Industry if he expects more, or less, people to be actively employed in the aircraft and shipbuilding industries 12 months after vesting day if the industries are nationalised.

Mr. Kaufman

The change to public ownership will not of itself alter the number of people employed in these industries. What it will do is afford the opportunity for coherent strategies to be developed for these industries which will give them hope and prospects not likely to be forthcoming while they remain in private ownership.

Mr. Adley

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the hot air he has just produced will be no consolation to those who, as opposed to the Minister, are working in the industry if, as a result of nationalisation, the number of jobs decreases? Does he not agree that to those who work in the industry that is the acid test? Is he prepared to put his money where his mouth is and give me a wager that in a year's time after nationalisation there will not be fewer people working in those industries?

Mr. Kaufman

Those who work in the shipbuilding industry know that there is a conspiracy between the Tory Party in this House and the House of Lords to murder that industry. The question for workers in the industry is not how many jobs will be lost after nationalisation but how many jobs will survive to be nationalised.

Mr. Marten

What hope is there in the shipbuilding industry when there is such a vast oversupply of shipbuilding capacity in the world?

Mr. Kaufman

Mr. Graham Day, before the Tory Party and the House of Lords forced him out of his job—[Interruption.] The workers on Tyneside, Clydeside and Merseyside are not laughing over these matters. They appreciate the effects of the situation. Mr. Day said that under nationalisation his objective was to see not how many shipyards could be closed but how many could be kept open. It is public ownership, with a coherent strategy, that gives the best hope of shipyards being kept open and of being able to attract orders. The great problem, in addition to the world recession, is that too many of our shipyards do not have the facilities to provide the kind of productivity that attracts customers.

Mr. Norman Lamont

What proportion of assets to be taken over and of the labour force in shipbuilding is represented by ship-repairing activities? Will the Minister say why, if nationalisation is so urgent and important, the Government refused to compromise over such a small part of the industry?

Mr. Kaufman

At the last General Election the Labour Party was returned to power on its own policy and not on a policy of compromising to the demands of the unelected House of Lords. We put forward our proposals on the nationalisation of aircraft, shipbuilding and ship repairing, and it is not for that unelected crowd down the corridor to say which of our manifesto commitments we can fulfil and which we cannot.