HC Deb 05 November 1975 vol 899 cc374-6
2. Mr. Goodhew

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will introduce legislation to amend the Caravan Sites Act to enable areas smaller than counties to be designated thereunder.

The Minister for Planning and Local Government (Mr. John Silkin)

No, Sir.

Mr. Goodhew

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, under the law as it stands, when a local authority provides an authorised caravan site, that provision is rapidly followed by unauthorised users occupying adjacent land, such as the present site in my constituency adjacent to the Park Street roundabout, land that is owned by the right hon. Gentlemans Department? The filthy state of such sites merely antagonises those who might otherwise be in favour of producing further authorised sites. Will the right hon. Gentleman consider this matter again? If he wants the policy to succeed and to have sites provided legally throughout the land, something must be done to ensure that a difficult situation is not created, for that merely produces objections to legal sites.

Mr. Silkin

I do not think that there will be much disagreement in the House about the importance of the problem and the difficulties that are involved. The question is whether the suggestion made by the hon. Gentleman would help or hinder the situation. I understand that in the hon. Gentleman's area it is the county that has responsibility. Incidentally, it is a county that has done very well in tackling this problem. However, if we are to tackle the problem in the way he suggests—namely, by the designation of smaller areas—I think that the effect will be wrong in that we shall create a patchwork quilt of designation, which will mean that thereafter travelling people will be camping in unauthorised camps. That is exporting the problem. That is not the way in which to proceed. The problem needs to be considered, for undoubtedly there are many people who are engaged in this way of life. I do not think that the splitting up of designation is the right answer. There is a school of thought that believes that counties are too small an area to be designated and that it might be worth considering larger areas.

Mr. Ward

As the largest London borough—namely, Bromley—has an area of about 40,000 acres and possesses these powers, does my right hon. Friend agree that a district such as Peterborough, which has 82,000 acres and which has energetically pursued proposals to look after the gipsies in its area, should not have to wait for extra powers for controlling travellers on the highway because the rest of the county area is perhaps slow to respond?

Mr. Silkin

It is clear that this is a genuine difficulty. There is the danger that we may be exporting the problem to someone else. It is easy to consider the matter only from a relatively narrow point of view. I understand the problems and I sympathise with those affected, but I believe that the answer is the provision of more sites.

Mr. Beith

In view of the situation at Berwick-upon-Tweed, in which he has taken a close personal interest, does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that special difficulties arise if a large number of caravans are imported into an area so as to inflate the demand for a site? Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise that unless some kind of estimate can be made of the number of people for whom the local authorities are obliged to provide, there is potentially no limit to the number of people who might like to park a caravan in an attractive seaside place?

Mr. Silkin

It is a difficult problem, but the point about the nomadic way of life is that people are imported, or import themselves, from one part of the country into another. That is exactly what has happened in Berwick.