HC Deb 30 July 1974 vol 878 cc455-8
5. Mr. Cryer

asked the Secretary of State for Defence when he is likely to announce the review of defence expenditure.

9. Mr. Ford

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he now in a position to provide further information about the progress of his defence review.

13. Mr. Ioan Evans

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what proposals he intends making on defence expenditure following the defence review; and if he will make a statement.

15. Mr. Goodhart

asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he will make an interim statement about his review of defence expenditure.

Mr. Mason

The review which I announced on 21st March is still in progress, and I am not yet in a position to make a statement on its outcome. An announcement will be made as soon as possible.

Mr. Cryer

Does my right hon. Friend accept that as he is reviewing nuclear weapons expenditure it would be fair and consistent for him to make strong representations to the French, to oppose their tests in the atmosphere and to oppose tests whether they be British, French, Chinese or Russian? Further, does he accept that it would be desirable if he impressed upon his hon. Friend the Minister of State, Department of the Environment that it would be better for him to be consistent in his opposition to the detestable regime in South Africa?

Mr. Mason

On my hon. Friend's first point, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs has already done so. On his second point, I draw my hon. Friend's attention to what my hon. Friend the Minister of State, Department of the Environment has said.

Mr. Goodhart

As the right hon. Gentleman has said that he will consult our allies on the terms of the defence review, will he consult the British people? Will he give a firm assurance that the review will he published before the General Election in view of the rumours that it will lead to a withdrawal from the Cyprus base? Will he say now that there will be no withdrawal of our forces from Cyprus? Surely even Her Majesty's Government must realise that to withdraw from the base now would lead to further instability.

Mr. Mason

I do not know when the General Election will take place so I cannot state whether my White Paper will be before it or after it. All I can say is that the work on the White Paper is complex and is taking longer than I imagined. The question of Cyprus is subject to the review, but we have just seen how important a role our forces play in helping to maintain peace and stability on the island.

Mr. Ford

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that when he comes to recommend the defence cuts there are two matters to consider carefully in the balance? The first is the effect of the cuts upon civilians employed in Britain and the second is the political question of how far the British people are prepared to see Britain's defence posture weakened.

Mr. Mason

When anybody is considering cuts in defence expenditure I always expect that there will be two strongly expounded points of view. My hon. Friend represents one such point of view. I shall take on board what he says about the review because naturally employment considerations are playing a part in the review. That is one reason for the review being slowed down.

Mr. Buck

Will the right hon. Gentleman be more specific? Is it not true that the internal papers are now all prepared? Is he not considering what he feels should be done about them? Will he be specific about when he will start consulting our allies and, simultaneous with that, when he will consult the House?

Mr. Mason

I should like to know how the hon. and learned Gentleman knows that internal papers are already prepared. [HON. MEMBERS: "Are they?"] The ramifications of the documents that are before me are so complex and wide-ranging that it will take some time before Ministers will be able to peruse them and to consider the options that are available. I cannot be more honest and frank than that.

Mr. Evans

When my right hon. Friend announces the outcome of his review, will he continue to have regard to Britain's balance of payments? Will he continue to realise that other countries in Europe with which we are associated have an embarrassing balance of payments surplus? Does he realise that it would be better if the people who are now engaged in defending this island were producing exports rather than remaining a charge on the Exchequer?

Mr. Mason

I appreciate what my hon. Friend says, but it does not necessarily follow that if there were major cuts in defence expenditure those who were declared unemployed or redundant would immediately be able to go into export based industries where we badly require them. That is one of the problems of the review.

Mr. Peter Walker

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that he has now had five months to make a review of defence expenditure, the review being based upon a Labour Party pledge to make substantial cuts in expenditure? Does he accept that there has been total uncertainty in the Armed Services and in all the companies concerned? For the right hon. Gentleman to say that the reason for further delay is that Ministers need a lot more time to peruse the papers before them reeks of lethargy or of putting off the review until after the General Election.

Mr. Mason

First, Ministers have not had the papers placed before them. This is a massive exercise. We are examining every commitment abroad from the Far East right through to NATO. We are also considering every capability of Her Majesty's Forces. Further, we have to consider to what extent there will be job redundancies and job prospects lost as a result of the review. The consequences in certain areas and upon certain firms have to be considered. It is right that the matter should be considered calmly and rationally. Further, it is right that it should take time.

Mr. Goodhart

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of most of the right hon. Gentleman's replies, I beg to give notice that I shall seek leave to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest possible moment.