HC Deb 30 July 1974 vol 878 cc454-5
Mr. Leslie Huckfield

asked the Secretary of State for Defence whether he will make a statement about the use of military premises in the training of civilian police officers in techniques of crowd control.

The Minister of State for Defence (Mr. William Rodgers)

In agreement with the Home Office, we consider on its merits any request from the police for the use of Service premises and facilities in crowd control training.

Mr. Huckfield

Does my hon. Friend recall that just before the miners' strike several examples were reported of soldiers and police training together in what was then euphemistically called crowd control? Can he give the House an indication of the extent to which it is still carried on? Can he also give an undertaking that the whole situation will be much more seriously kept in check in future?

Mr. Rodgers

I can certainly tell my hon. Friend that this is a matter which is very carefully considered. I can also say quite plainly that there is no question of there being any joint training of the Armed Forces and the police in the way he suggests.

Dr. Glyn

Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that co-operation between the civilian police and the military is very good training for some emergencies that might occur and that good liaison between the two bodies is of benefit to both?

Mr. Rodgers

I think that we must treat these matters in a relaxed and sensible way. What I say to my hon. Friend the Member for Nuneaton (Mr. Huckfield) is true. There is no joint training, nor do I think that there should be such training.

Mr. Evelyn King

Does not the Army frequently fulfil what is commonly regarded as a civilian rôle? Is it not doing so in Northern Ireland? Is it not desirable that the Army should be trained for what it has to do?

Mr. Rodgers

First I said nothing about not training the Army for rôles which it has to fulfil. Secondly, there is a great deal of difference between the rôle that the Army carries out in Northern Ireland, with the full support of both sides of the House, and the sort of dangers about which my hon. Friend was concerned.

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