§ 16. Mr. McElhoneasked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was the maximum income of a man with a wife and two children who was paying a nil rent under the Housing (Financial Provisions) (Scotland) Act 1972, up to 28th April 1973.
§ Mr. YoungerThis depends on the level of standard rent.
§ Mr. McElhoneWhile expecting that type of answer, may I apologise, first, for a rather long supplementary question—[Laughter.]
§ Mr. SpeakerI would remind the hon. Gentleman that that statement is a hostage to fortune.
§ Mr. McElhoneI have made my apologies first, Mr. Speaker. Is the Minister aware that the hon. Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward Taylor), who made such a song and dance about my absence from the last Scottish Question Time, which was unavoidable—
§ Mr. McElhone—stated in the Press that a large number of Scottish Conservative Members of Parliament rushed down to the House to hear the answer to one of my Questions? Will the Minister assure the House that Scottish Conservative Members are here at other Question Times?
Is it not absolutely scurrilous, to use the term of my hon. Friend the Member for Bothwell (Mr. James Hamilton), for the hon. Member for Cathcart to suggest —[Interruption.]—may I have silence, please?—in a weekly column that I table the last Question to give a pat on the back to the Government? Is not this utterly reprehensible on the part of the hon. Member for Cathcart?
May I also put the pertinent question to the Minister? Out of a random survey of 100 cases from the computer in the Glasgow housing management rebate centre it was pointed out to me that 78 per cent. of the rebate cases were mainly widows, the disabled and the unemployed, and that of the other 22 per cent. many were widows or wage-stop cases. Does not that destroy the Government's arguments in regard to rebates?
May I—[HON. MEMBERS: "No."]—finally, Mr. Speaker—
§ Mr. SpeakerI think that that is enough.
§ Mr. McElhoneMay I, Mr. Speaker—
§ Mr. SpeakerI have heard it said that there is no time for a peroration in a supplementary question.
§ Mr. YoungerMay I apologise for an excessively short answer? The point that my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Cathcart (Mr. Edward Taylor) was so anxious to bring out, which I should have thought that hon. Members on both sides of the House would be anxious to bring out, was that the nil rent provisions are 457 producing a very valuable help to many families with low incomes and a large number of children. I understand that there are, for instance, in Glasgow, following the raising of the needs allowance, something in excess of 3,300 families which are likely to pay a nil rent in the future, and that is in addition to all those on supplementary benefit, who still get their rent covered for them.
I should have thought that the hon. Gentleman would agree that the rent rebate scheme is a very valuable help to many families on small incomes.
§ Mr. McElhoneToo long.
Mr. Taylor—that the hon. Member for Glasgow, Gorbals (Mr. McElhone) has made more than the usual idiot of himself and owes my hon. Friend a personal and public apology for the fact that he said a few days before an important municipal election in Glasgow that hardly any families in Scotland—
§ Mr. McElhoneIt is still true.
Mr. Taylor—would pay a nil rent, when the Minister gave an answer the day after the election that thousands would pay a nil rent and has again confirmed today that many families in Glasgow pay a nil rent? Does not my hon. Friend feel that he and the people of Glasgow are owed a public apology from the hon. Member for Gorbals?
§ Mr. YoungerThousands of families in Scotland will be paying a nil rent as a result of this rent rebate scheme. I know that the hon. Member for Gorbals (Mr. McElhone) has a very strong interest in these matters, but he has never managed to understand the rent rebate scheme or its benefits to the people of Scotland. I hope that he will now get down to it and understand it.
§ Mr. McElhoneMay I suggest to the Minister that he is utterly wrong when he replies to the question of rebates? I can give him figures—I shall do so after Question Time—which prove that he is wrong.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. I thought that the hon. Gentleman wished to raise a point of order.
§ Mr. McElhoneOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I am sorry for the confusion, but it is terribly important to the people whom I represent and to the constituents of other hon. Members.
§ Mr. McElhoneIn view of the very poor answers from the Minister, I beg to give notice that I shall seek an early opportunity of raising the matter on the Adjournment.
§ Mr. SpeakerI thank the hon. Member. That ends that.