HC Deb 08 March 1973 vol 852 cc576-82
19. Mr. Golding

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what have been the increases in the prices of bacon and eggs since 1st January 1973.

Mrs. Fenner

First-hand prices of bacon have increased by amounts ranging from £25 to £73 a ton, depending on nationality, and these increases have been partly reflected at the retail level. Retail egg prices increased up to the end of February by between 2p and 4½p a dozen, depending on size and colour.

Mr. Golding

That is a scandalous reply. Is the Minister aware that having got rid of the traditional English dinner she is now getting rid of the traditional breakfast? Is it an integral part of the acceptance of the common agricultural policy that we all eat continental breakfasts?

Mrs. Fenner

The hon. Member knows, as I said, that those increases are due mainly to imported bacon. The only part of the increase which has any connection with the EEC concerns the phasing out of the stabiliser, which has introduced the increase of £25 a ton, which we estimate will be reflected at the retail level in the form of ½p a lb. But eggs and bacon are still very good value for money.

Sir Robin Turton

Will my hon. Friend confirm that the retail price of eggs is lower today than it was 10 years ago, although the cost of feedingstuffs is much higher?

Mrs. Fenner

I agree with my right hon. Friend. It is clear that we have to secure adequate returns to the producers in order to safeguard future supplies.

Mr. David Clark

The Minister has just told us that she expects the price of British bacon to go up ½p a lb. Has she seen the statement by Sir John Stratton in which he claims that the wholesale price of bacon will go up 5p a lb. as a result of the Government's measures? Will she take this opportunity either to confirm or to refute Sir John's statement?

Mrs. Fenner

As my right hon. Friend said to the hon. Member during the debate on the phasing out of the first part of the bacon stabilisation scheme, it is this phasing out which will cause the £25 a ton increase. Then bacon will move into the fresh food market—but it will, of course, be subject to the close attention of the food panel under the Price Commission in stage 2 of the counter-inflation policy.

Mr. Winterton

Is the Minister aware that many egg producers have gone out of business because they cannot get sufficient return for their work and investment? How will she safeguard the future production of eggs in this country?

Mrs. Fenner

I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Sir Robin Turton) that it is essential to secure adequate return to the producers, and they have had to face the rising cost of feedingstuffs. Eggs have risen in price since Christmas, when they had fallen by 2p a dozen to the amounts I quoted in the answer.

Mr. Kaufman

Are the Government determined to price proteins out of the diet of my constituents? Do they suggest that my constituents should eat ice cream, lollies and potato crisps for their main meals?

Mrs. Fenner

I recognise that the hon. Member is sensitive about the subject of food, which was subjected to purchase tax by the Opposition when they were in Government, but he should remember that average wages have risen 34 per cent. in this time and that following on the announcement by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor this week, as pensioners are the most vulnerable members of our community, pensions have been increased in cash terms by almost twice as much as the increase in prices.

Mr. Buchan

Will the Minister answer the question put by my hon. Friend? Will she deny or confirm the statement by the President of the British Bacon Curers Federation that the price is liable to rise by 5p? Bacon is now to be classified as fresh food and the Government will have no control over its price.

Mrs. Fenner

I disagree with Sir John Stratton, because he is making an estimate that he is in no position to make, in view of the continuous review of fresh food prices which will be carried out by the food panel under stage 2 of the counter-inflation policy.

22. Mr. Carter

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what was the cost of a 1 lb loaf on 18th June 1970 and what is its cost now, both prices expressed in old and new pence.

Mrs. Fenner

I assume that the hon. Member is referring to the standard small loaf of 14 oz. The cost of a white, 14 oz unwrapped loaf on 18th June 1970 was 11 old pence or 4½ new pence; the cost today is 5½ new pence or 13 old pence.

Mr. Carter

That is a deplorable answer. Will the Minister cast her mind back to 1970 and the words uttered by the then Leader of the Opposition, that under a future Labour Government the price of a loaf would rise to 3s? Will she agree that under this Government that is a well-on-target prophecy, which will be reached pretty soon? In conclusion, will she agree that there is no substitute for bread?

Mrs. Fenner

The hon. Member appears to be taking a clairvoyant look into the future about a 3s loaf, but he will be aware that the world cereal price increase has contributed to the rise.

Mr. Rost

Does my hon. Friend agree that the cuts announced by the Chancellor in the Budget on the average expenditure of £1 a week on sweets, chocolates, biscuits and soft drinks will allow the average family to buy at least three extra loaves a week of the type that she has described?

Mrs. Doris Fisher

Will the Minister check her figures once again? She quoted a price of 5½p, but that is completely incorrect. Is she aware that only at lunchtime I bought a loaf which cost me 7½p —and that was only a stone's throw away from the House of Commons?

Mrs. Fenner

If the hon. Lady will give me details of the place where she purchased the loaf—[Interruption.]—and will make absolutely certain—[Interruption.] Is she referring to the 14 oz loaf? [Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order.

Mr. David Clark

The Minister has just said that one of the reasons for an increase in the price of bread has been the increase in the price of cereals in the world market. Can she assure the House that when the world cereal price drops there is nothing in the rules of the Common Market which will stop us re- ducing the price of a loaf and thus benefiting from that cheaper price?

Mrs. Fenner

That will clearly be a matter for discussion at such a time.

23. Mr. Ewing

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food if he will make it his policy to announce to the public food price increases which his Department has approved as decisions are made.

Mrs. Fenner

The timing of any announcements has to be considered with the firms or the trade association concerned in the light of the different circumstances.

Mr. Ewing

Will the Minister agree that this is a departure in policy for her Department, and will she confirm that in recent months her Department has had consultations with the trade and that it has now been agreed that consents will be given and that the date of implementation or announcement to the consumer will be left entirely to the trade? Will she also agree that the great danger is that the first the housewife will know of the increase is when she purchases the goods and finds out the price?

Mrs. Fenner

That is not accurate. The answer is exactly as I have given it —that it depends on circumstances. For example, sometimes a consent relates to a single product made by a single manufacturer, such as one special kind of biscuit or jam, or to a product sold only to the trade. In another case, when it relates, for example, to meat products, it extends over a whole range and affects individual producers, such as butchers producing sausages. The announcements are considered with the trade, and each announcement is considered in the light of the particular circumstances.

Mr. Buchan

Is the Minister aware that the increase in food prices is now running at a rate two-and-a-half times greater than that of 12 months ago? In view of that fact, would it not be a good idea to give advance notice of increases in food prices, so that people could save up for their weekend joint?

Mrs. Fenner

I think the hon. Gentleman knows the provisions made in stage 2 of the counter-inflation policy.

Mr. Kaufman

With regard to announcements of changes in food prices, has the Minister noted the universal condemnation of the Government's frivolous tax concession in the Budget on confectionery, potato crisps, and so on—condemnation notably expressed in a forthright leading article in the Sun today? [Laughter.] It is a newspaper read by millions of ordinary people. Does not the hon. Lady agree that to balance the diet of people whom we represent it would be better to take back that silly tax concession and subsidise the price of bread, meat and the things that families really need to have a balanced diet?

Mrs. Fenner

I realise that the hon. Gentleman is sensitive because, as I have said, the purchase tax was placed on the first foods he mentioned by his Government.

Mr. William Hamilton

No. It was the previous Conservative Government.

Mrs. Fenner

I am sorry—the tax was increased by the hon. Gentleman's Government. I can understand that the hon. Gentleman is not willing to give us credit for reducing any taxation.

Mr. Winterton

Is my hon. Friend aware that the newspaper to which the hon. Member for Manchester, Ardwick (Mr. Kaufman) referred also urged the gas workers to go back to work immediately and accept three-quarters of their pay claim, and that that newspaper is read by the ordinary man and woman in the street?

Mrs. Fenner

I do not think that that is a question for me.

24. Mrs. Doris Fisher

asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what discussions he has had with major bakery firms about absorbing the cost increases on the price of bread from their profits.

Mrs. Fenner

The major bakery firms have supplied my right hon. Friend with detailed information about their increased costs of raw materials and labour and he is at present examining this.

Mrs. Fisher

I thank the hon. Lady for that reply. I sincerely hope that her Ministry will realise the Prime Minister's hope expressed in his speech at Birming- ham that all large industries would absorb their cost increases. As the Rank organisation increased its profits by over £6 million last year, could not the hon. Lady tell it point-blank that it must absorb the increased cost of making a loaf of bread out of those increased profits?

Mrs. Fenner

The profitability of the companies concerned will be one of the factors to be taken into account in considering the problem, but it is clear that profits have been eroded by the increased cost of wheat, which has not yet been reflected in the price of bread. That erosion will be increased by the increased wages to be paid to the bakery workers this month.