HC Deb 12 December 1973 vol 866 cc389-91
4. Mr. Edward Taylor

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will make a further statement on staffing shortages in secondary schools in the West of Scotland.

Mr. Monro

There are shortages in Lanarkshire, Glasgow and Renfrewshire, but in Dunbartonshire and Ayrshire the supply position is generally satisfactory.

Mr. Taylor

Will the Minister accept that there is a desperately serious situation, at least in Glasgow, where almost 5,000 secondary children are receiving part-time education? Does not that call for urgent action? Will the Minister be prepared to look, first, at the question of designated schools and, secondly, at the suggestion that children should be permitted to leave school at the age of 16? Will he do that before next July's review?

Mr. Monro

My hon. Friend may have got exaggerated figures of the number of children receiving part-time education in Glasgow.

Mr. Taylor

They are your figures.

Mr. Monro

My information is that there are nine schools where part-time education is taking place, and the pupils there are losing rather less than five hours education per week. I am looking at the position of designated schools because the scheme runs out this session and I hope that a new one will be announced in good time, so that teachers are aware of the new incentives when considering which authorities to apply to for posts.

Mr. Carmichael

May I stress this question of designated schools and payments? Will the hon. Gentleman have a word with the Treasury about the possibility of getting money urgently for these schools? Is he aware that in the West of Scotland such a move would go a long way towards alleviating difficulties?

Mr. Monro

The hon. Gentleman, who also spoke in the Adjournment debate on Monday evening, is asking me to do the impossible. I hope to meet the teachers' associations much more quickly than it would be reasonable to expect the Treasury to give any decision on the future of the designation scheme. In any event, as it is a salaries question we have to go to the salaries committee before any pronouncements can be made.

25. Mr. James White

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the shortage of teachers in the secondary schools in Glasgow.

Mr. Monro

On the basis of standards proposed in my Department's recent Report on Secondary School Staffing for attainment over the next few years, I estimate the present shortage in Glasgow at about 350 teachers.

Mr. White

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the poorer schools are those which are worst off in Glasgow? Does he accept that he cannot direct teachers? Will the hon. Gentleman do something about teachers who have been teaching for two years in designated schools, taking home £25 a week and with a £13 a week mortgage, before they are due to take industrial action? Secondly, will the hon. Gentleman take into consideration for these designated schools the amount of money being saved because of the shortage of teachers?

Mr. Monro

As I have explained earlier to hon. Gentlemen, the designation scheme is under consideration at present. It would be wrong for me to anticipate any result that might come, but I have emphasised the importance of this scheme in attracting teachers to areas where they are particularly needed. The hon. Gentleman's second point was on the issue of salaries for teachers, and that matter goes to the salaries committee next week.