HC Deb 12 December 1973 vol 866 cc391-3
6. Mr. Adam Hunter

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many requests he has had from parents asking that their children be granted early exemption or allowed to finish with school on their sixteenth birthday.

Mr. Monro

Since the school leaving age was raised on 1st September 1972 I have had 14 inquiries from parents either direct or through hon. Members.

Mr. Hunter

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that several parents have come to me complaining that their sons and daughters have been unable to take up suitable jobs because they cannot leave school at the age of 16? Does he not agree that even today many working-class families require the income of young members of the family, who must now remain at school after the age of 16? Has he noted that the Educational Institute of Scotland thinks that it is right and proper that young adolescents should leave on their sixteenth birthday? Will he come round to the institute's way of thinking?

Mr. Monro

I must at this stage disagree with the hon. Member. I take his point that if pupils were able to leave school at the age of 16 they could possibly take up immediate employment. On the other hand, it is a greater advantage to them to complete their education. My right hon. Friend has announced that we shall look at this, perhaps, in about a year's time, when we have evidence of the effects of the raising of the school leaving age. I would not like to close the door to the hon. Gentleman's suggestion.

Mr. Edward Taylor

Will my hon. Friend keep an open mind on the question of applying exemptions on a regional basis, for example in Glasgow and Lanarkshire? In case there is any misunderstanding about the serious nature of the problem, will he confirm the figure he gave me two weeks ago that 6,473 secondary children in Glasgow and Lanarkshire are receiving part-time education, of whom three quarters are in Glasgow?

Mr. Monro

I have said that we shall look at this in due course. I note what my hon. Friend says about the figures he has in his possession.

Mr. Strang

Does the Minister accept that these teacher shortage problems, although much more serious in the West of Scotland, are not confined to that area? Is he aware that even in Edinburgh there are such shortages? Is not one of the root problems the fact that teachers are low-paid workers? Is it not intolerable that a qualified teacher can take home less than £20 a week?

Mr. Monro

The hon. Gentleman ought to be fair. Edinburgh education authority had a surplus of 113 teachers in September. I do not think that the hon. Member has a good case for saving that there is a shortage there. Accepting that this is a matter of maldistribution, hon. Gentlemen should agree that this is not a new phenomenon. It has been going on for a long time. Since the pupil-teacher ratio in January 1969 was 16.9 to 1 and in September 1973 was 16 to 1, it seems that it was very much worse under a Labour Government.

Mr. David Steel

To return to the Question on the Order Paper, if the Minister says that only 14 representations have been made, will he accept that this is only the tip of the iceberg and that there is now genuine and widespread concern among parents, pupils, teachers and employers about the way in which the Government are sticking to the provisions relating to the raising of the school leaving age? Is he aware that employers would prefer a steady flow of labour on to the market at the sixteenth birthday?

Mr. Monro

In some ways it could be said that such a move would be unfair to those who remained at school until a month or two later. The major advantage of this is that the schools can plan courses for the final year in the knowledge that pupils will remain long enough to benefit from them. It is the interests of the children about which we are concerned, not so much those of the employers.