§ 9. Mr. Rowlandsasked the Secretary of State for Wales what efforts he is making to improve his Department's information on housing matters in Wales.
§ Mr. Gibson-WattThe Department already has available the information necessary to the discharge of my right hon. and learned Friend's responsibilities.
§ Mr. RowlandsIt is all the more amazing how the hon. Gentleman and the Secretary of State are rapidly becoming the "don't know" Ministers in respect of housing. Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the answers to a whole range of Questions asked about the Housing Finance Bill show that he does not know the impact of the Bill? Has he shown any awareness of the rise in house prices? Is he to depend upon information sent to him by my hon. Friends and myself showing, for instance, that house prices in my constituency have risen by £1,000 in eight months?
§ Mr. Gibson-WattThe hon. Gentleman was responsible for housing matters in the Welsh Office two years ago. The methods now used differ very little from the methods used by himself. It is certainly not the intention of either myself or my right hon. and learned Friend to obtain information from local authorities which is unnecessary and which imposes a burden on local authorities and does nothing to further the work of my Department.
§ Mr. KinnockWould the Minister of State take a drive up the valleys if he feels that his departmental duties might be better fulfilled by seeing for himself how house prices in the valleys have exploded? He would then see that in con- 976 stituencies such as mine developers of new estates have crossed off prices from the boards and are simply asking what they feel like asking when a prospective buyer comes along.
§ Mr. Gibson-WattThe Question concerned information which one would get from local authorities. During the debate in Welsh Grand Committee only about 10 days ago my right hon. and learned Friend and myself spent a good deal of our speeches explaining this matter to hon. Members.
§ Sir A. MeyerIs not the way to knock house prices down to bring the maximum number of houses on to the market for sale? Would not the encouragement to local authorities to sell council houses have an effect on bringing prices down?
§ Mr. Gibson-WattCertainly, yes.
§ Mr. George ThomasIn that case, what a pity it is that the number of starts is so low. Is the Minister of State aware that in his rather sharp rejoinder to my hon. Friend the Member for Merthyr Tydfil (Mr. Rowlands) about information which the Question deals with, he forgot to indicate that the big difference was that my hon. Friend, unlike the Secretary of State for Wales, moved around Wales with every authority? Is it not astonishing that the Secretary of State—I am sorry to say this in his absence—is unable to give us an account of the effect of land prices on the cost of housing in the Principality?
§ Mr. Gibson-WattAs I have said in answer to the hon. Member for Bedwellty (Mr. Kinnock), we covered this matter fairly well in the Welsh Grand Committee. I could not accept what the right hon. Gentleman says about the movements of my right hon. and learned Friend.
§ 11. Mr. Michael Robertsasked the Secretary of State for Wales what relation the figure of 16,856 houses under construction in Wales at the end of the first quarter of 1972 bears to the comparable figure for the end of the first quarter of 1971.
§ Mr. Gibson-WattIt represents a 4½ per cent. increase.
§ Mr. RobertsI thank my hon. Friend for that reply, which indicates some 977 improvement. But in view of the unprecedented demand in the last two years for home ownership in Wales, will my hon. Friend give an assurance that every encouragement will be given to local authorities to release land for house building and to expedite planning permissions so that supply can match demand?
§ Mr. Gibson-WattI am grateful to my hon. Friend. Yes, certainly. That is the policy of my right hon. and learned Friend and we have made this clear to Welsh local authorities.
§ Mr. Alec JonesIf there has been a 4½ per cent. increase in the number of houses under construction during this period, what has been the percentage increase in rents and house prices over the same period?
§ Mr. Gibson-WattThat is a different question, which I should be happy to answer if the hon. Gentleman tabled it.