§ 26. Sir A. Meyerasked the Secretary of State for Wales if information is now available to enable him to estimate, on the basis of information supplied to him by local housing authorities, the average increases both in cash and in percentage terms in the rents of local authority housing in Wales as a direct consequence of the Housing Finance Bill.
§ Mr. Gibson-WattFirm estimates cannot be made until local authorities have assessed the fair rents for their houses and these have been confirmed by the Rent Scrutiny Boards.
§ Sir A. MeyerHas my hon. Friend any reason to suppose that the increases in Wales will turn out to be any larger than appears likely in England, and does not this give the lie to the vicious campaign conducted by the Labour Party to frighten council house tenants into thinking that their rents will double or treble?
§ Mr. Gibson-WattYes, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is no reason to believe that council house tenants will face substantial increases in rents. Rebates and allowances will help those tenants who need it.
§ Mr. AbseIs the hon. Gentleman aware that in view of the widespread unemployment in Wales, particularly in areas like Cwmbran New Town where there is a large amount of rented property and unemployment, he would be wise to invite applications under Clause 63(6) of the Housing Finance Bill to minimise some of the effects of the legislation, which otherwise would be bound to encourage the feckless, humiliate the unemployed and penalise the frugal?
§ Mr. Gibson-WattI cannot agree with the hon. Gentleman. He has tabled a Question later on this subject and I hope to be able to answer him then.
§ Mr. RoderickIn view of the proximity of the definition of gross values to the definition in the Housing Finance Bill of what rents should be, will the hon. Gentleman accept that the new gross values will be the new fair rent level for council houses?
§ Mr. Gibson-WattIf the hon. Gentleman looks at my original answer he will see that I have already answered his question. I repeat that there is no reason to believe that council house tenants will face substantial increases in rent; rebates and allowances will help those tenants who need it.
§ 27. Sir A. Meyerasked the Secretary of State for Wales what is his estimate of the total Exchequer contribution to be made to local authorities in Wales in the first year of operation of the Housing Finance Bill as a contribution to the rent rebate schemes to be introduced under the terms of the Bill.
§ Mr. Gibson-WattAbout £5 million.
§ Sir A. MeyerIs it not the case that the anxieties of certain local authorities that the rebate scheme will place a great strain on rates are partly misplaced in that the greater part of these rebates fall due to be paid from the Exchequer, and that in the early years this will apply to virtually the whole of the rebates?
§ Mr. Gibson-WattAgain my hon. Friend is right. The Exchequer will meet 90 per cent. of these costs in 1972–73, dropping to 75 per cent. by 1975–76. The remainder, together with any excess rebates over the model rebate and allowance, will be met by the rates.
§ Mr. RowlandsDoes not the hon. Gentleman realise that the costs of paying rent rebates which will be borne by local authorities were once borne by the Supplementary Benefits Commission, and that this is a regressive redistribution of responsibility for those most in need from a rich central Government in many cases to poor local authorities?
§ Mr. Gibson-WattI cannot accept that. With his undoubted knowledge of the Bill, the hon. Gentleman will realise that in both the public and the private sectors, those who cannot afford rents will be helped to pay them with allowances and rebates.