HC Deb 14 June 1972 vol 838 cc1492-4
15. Mr. Sydney Chapman

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment to what extent he intends to continue to limit the loads and lengths of heavy and large vehicles in Great Britain; and if he intends to confine them to certain routes and ban them from certain streets and roads in towns and cities.

Mr. Peyton

Future weight and length limits will depend on the outcome of the consultations between the EEC and the acceding countries. The powers which local authorities have for route restriction will remain.

Mr. Chapman

Should not the criteria governing the length and the loads of lorries be based upon the design of roads? Whilst some roads, perhaps motorways and large trunk roads, may be capable of bearing these loads, many roads, particularly in our towns and cities, should have a much stricter limitation put on them.

Mr. Peyton

Yes, I agree. I have referred already this afternoon, and again in my Answer, to the powers which local authorities have to make restricted routes, and I am certain that we must move more and more into this area in order to keep heavy vehicles out of narrow streets and country lanes, which cannot even begin to accommodate them.

Mr. Leslie Huckfield

Would not the Minister do far better to recognise that there is no observable difference between vehicles of 32 tons and 40 tons gross weight?

Mr. William Hamilton

Eight tons exactly.

Mr. Huckfield

From where does the Minister get the figure of £200 million worth of additional damage to the roads from the increase in axle weight? In view of the recent Weights and Measures report about vehicle overloading, would not he do far better to recognise that we already have on our roads vehicles exceeding 40 tons gross weight?

Mr. Hamilton

Get them off.

Mr. Peyton

I have already referred today to the point made by the hon. Gentleman. The discernible outward difference between an overall weight of 32 tons and one of 40 tons is very small. I am well aware of that, and I am glad to find that the hon. Gentleman has got things straight. Would he remind me of his other points?

Mr. Huckfield

From where does the right hon. Gentleman get the figure of £200 million worth of additional damage through increases in axle weights, and in view of the recent Weights and Measures report on overloading, would not he do far better to recognise that we already have vehicles on our roads exceeding 40 tons gross weight?

Mr. Peyton

I am obliged to the hon. Gentleman. Overloading is a perennial problem. I am not suggesting that it has been satisfactorily solved. I am now looking into the problem. Others of my right hon. Friends have a responsibility here as well. I should very much like to see a great improvement in the question of enforcement, but I cannot hold out any immediate hopes.

Mr. Huckfield

What about the £200 million?

Mr. Peyton

This is a figure which has been examined very carefully.

Mr. Huckfield

It was quoted on the air.

Mr. Peyton

If he is unable to find a figure for himself, the hon. Gentleman always quickly comes to the conclusion that whoever else hit upon it must be crazy. That is not true. It has been the subject of very careful study by experts in this country, in order to ascertain the consequences of having axle loads of 11 tons or 11½ tons. That is why I am so desperately anxious to avoid them.

Mr. Huckfield

They are on the roads already.