HC Deb 06 June 1972 vol 838 cc217-9
12. Sir G. Nabarro

asked the Secretary of State for Employment if he will make a statement on the railway workers' dispute.

38. Mr. Adam Butler

asked the Secretary of State for Employment what is the position in the current rail dispute; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Maurice Macmillan

Representatives of the British Railways Board and the three railway unions met this morning and agreed to adjourn to a further meeting at 2.30 p.m. tomorrow.

Sir G. Nabarro

May we expect a statement tomorrow from the Minister after the conclusion of those deliberations? Is he not aware that there is very great anxiety in all parts of the country, not only within the ambit of the railway dispute itself but also over the whole general range of industry, whether we are not being deadlocked and bogged down by the tendentious conditions of the Industrial Relations Act?

Mr. Macmillan

I think there is danger—and the whole House will see it—of being bogged down by the refusal of the unions to adopt any form of compromise, and it has been manifest through the whole process of these negotiations. The purpose of this meeting is clearly to try to reach some form of settlement. I do not think it would be wise for me to comment—indeed, I cannot: I do not know what transpired—till after we know what takes place at the meeting tomorrow, when we shall know what the situation is.

Mr. Prentice

Does not the Secretary of State recall that when the Government applied for the rail ballot order the Solicitor-General told the court that he had reason to doubt support among railwaymen for continued industrial action? Now that the decisive result of the ballot has made nonsense of that assertion has not the Secretary of State a duty to the House and to the country to explain what were the reasons why the Government took that line?

Mr. Macmillan

I had very good and sound reasons for believing that at varying stages of the negotiations a number of railway men and a number of people would have been happy to see a settlement at a reasonable and moderate figure, and I have reason to believe that the whole country regarded the award by Mr. Jarratt as a reasonable and moderate figure. I am only sorry that the railway union leaders did not see this. They have now received the support of a great mass of their membership. I would not for one moment doubt their right to take industrial action, only the wisdom of so doing.

Mr. Prentice

The Secretary of State must do better than that. He says he has good reasons for believing that the railway men did not support the union leaders. It has now been proved that he had no such reasons. Although the Act is phrased in such a way that he does not have to produce evidence to the court for that assertion, does he not realise that he still has a responsibility to this House on a matter as important as this to explain what those reasons were? We are entitled to know, and the country is entitled to know, what they were.

Mr. Macmillan

I have no doubt that the right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends will be able to arrange, if they so wish, a debate through the usual channels. [Hon. Members: "Answer."] I will not at this stage be drawn any further into the merits of the dispute which has not yet been settled and which the parties are still discussing.

Sir G. Nabarro

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. You must distinctly have heard me ask whether we may expect a statement tomorrow at the end of the deliberations.

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Member knows quite well that that is not a point of order.