HC Deb 20 December 1972 vol 848 cc1332-5
34. Mr. Sydney Chapman

asked the Minister for the Civil Service if he will make a statement on his plans for the Central Computer Agency to develop the use of computers in Government.

Mr. Kenneth Baker

We have decided to set up a Computer Agency Council, under my chairmanship, to advise on the development of automatic data processing in Government. The membership of the council will be drawn from industry, commerce, the nationalised industries, local authorities, and other sources, as well as from Government Departments. I will circulate the terms of reference and details of the membership in the OFFICIAL REPORT today.

Mr. Chapman

I very much welcome that statement. When does my hon. Friend hope that this Computer Agency Council will first meet, and will he confirm that security and confidentiality of information is of paramount importance?

Mr. Baker

Yes indeed. I intend to call a meeting of the Computer Advisory Council in January. I should stress that the Government are the biggest users of computers in this country, but we feel that we should keep in close contact with other big users of computers in the private sector.

Regarding confidentiality of information on computers, my hon. Friend may be aware that in the records of civil servants, which are now being computerised, we have virtually followed the recommendations of the Younger Report.

Mr. Kaufman

When considering the purchase of computers will the Government make a point of placing their orders with ICL, whose headquarters are at West Gorton in my constituency, and which badly needs the employment?

Mr. Baker

The hon. Gentleman will know that on large computer orders the Government are following a policy of single tendering, and the single tender is in all cases placed with ICL.

Mr. Gurden

Is my hon. Friend aware that there is more than a suspicion that confidentiality has been abused?

Mr. Baker

Yes. This point goes rather wider than the Question. The House will have to await the White Paper on the Younger Report. I am absolutely satisfied that there is complete confidentiality within the computerised records of civil servants.

Mr. James Hamilton

In his reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Ardwick (Mr. Kaufman) relating to ICL, will the hon. Gentleman give serious thought and consideration to the special development areas? Will he reconsider the situation about tendering, allow private firms the opportunity to tender, and place the order with the person who submits the lowest tender?

Mr. Baker

The policy for the support of the British computer industry is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Minister for Industrial Development. However, I reaffirm that Government policy on single tendering to ICL will certainly be continued.

Mr. Biffen

Arising out of what my hon. Friend has just said in answer to the hon. Member for Manchester, Ardwick (Mr. Kaufman), may I ask whether he will assure the House that, notwithstanding any regulations or directives which may derive from the European Economic Community discouraging preferential tendering, it will still be Government policy to favour a British national computer industry?

Mr. Baker

I assure my hon. Friend that when we join the Community the British computer industry will not be in any worse position than the French or German computer industries. As my hon. Friend knows, there is considerable support from each of those Governments to their computer industries, and I assure him that we are very keen to ensure that British national interests are protected here.

Mr. Pannell

When the hon. Gentleman answered the supplementary question asked by his hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, he began his answer by saying "Yes, indeed". This was on the subject of a breach of confidentiality. Anybody reading that answer in HANSARD tomorrow will think that the hon. Gentleman agrees with his hon. Friend. Will he now set that answer right? Does he agree that there is cause for thinking that there is a breach of confidentiality?

Mr. Baker

I believe that my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Handsworth (Mr. Sydney Chapman) asked two questions. My reply "Yes, indeed" was to the latter one. I must

(a) To advise the Minister for the Civil Service, as required, on the development of automatic data processing in Government; and
(b) To define areas where action is required by the Central Computer Agency, in conjunction as necessary with other organisations, to promote the efficient application of ADP systems in Government departments.
Membership: The following have agreed to serve on the Council:
Sir Brian Flowers, FRS … … Chairman, Science Research Council
Mr. F. W. Gibson … … Deputy General Manager, National Westminster Bank
Mr. P. M. R. Hermon … … Group Management Services Director, British Airways Board
Mr. C. W. Mallinson … … County Treasurer, West Sussex County Council
Mr. C. P. Williamson … … British Petroleum
Departments will be represented by:
Mr. C. Wallworth … … Ministry of Defence
Mr. K. R. Stowe … … DHSS
Mr. J. W. de L. Nichols … … Department of Trade and Industry
Mr. F. Cooper … … Civil Service Department
Mr. S. W. Spain (Director, CCA) … …
Mr. M. S. Schreiber … …
Mr. R. D. Aylward (Secretary) … …