HC Deb 28 October 1971 vol 823 cc2059-61
7. Mr. Raphael Tuck

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will now make a statement on the revised pay settlement for the Probation Service.

Mr. Maudling

I have prescribed, with effect from 1st April, 1971, new pay scales of £1,395 to £2,078 for main grade officers and £2,298 to £2,618 for senior probation officers. From the same date a main grade officer on completing 10 years' service on the maximum of his scale will receive an additional increment of £72 bringing his total salary to £2,150.

This settlement is to run until 30th June, 1972, and an inquiry is to be held with a view to determining an appropriate relationship, with effect from 1st July, 1972, between the pay of probation officers and other social workers.

Mr. Tuck

Is the Home Secretary aware that, although a promise to set up an inquiry was made on 6th August, to date the Probation Service has had no information from the Government about this inquiry and no explanation has been offered? It appears to the probation officers as though the promise were merely a sop to cool their anger. Are these new scales the result of an independent inquiry, and, if so, why have we not heard about the independent inquiry?

Mr. Maudling

The new scales are agreed and the independent inquiry is being set up. I must admit that I am disturbed that it has taken so long to set up this inquiry and I am doing what I can to speed it up.

Dame Irene Ward

I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. However, in future will he remember that we have had to have a long fight, quite unnecessarily, for all these pay scales ought to have been put into operation a long time ago? Is he aware how much I and many others who know the work of the Probation Service resent the fact that the Home Office did not do its job properly, honestly and fairly a long time ago? Would he please see that this kind of thing never happens again in our civilised society?

Mr. Maudling

I share my hon. Friend's regard for the Probation Service. I do not accept her strictures on the Home Office. The fact is that there are big changes in the whole of the social services and there are difficult problems concerning the appropriate relative salary scales for those working in the Probation Service and those in fairly comparable services. We believe that this should be sorted out in everyone's interest, and that is what we intend to do.

Mr. Pavitt

Would the right hon. Gentleman bring forward his study of the comparability of the pay of probation officers and that of other officers in the social services? Is he aware that graduates with social science diplomas can obtain a rate of pay outside the Probation Service which is very much higher than even the revised scales for the service, and that this is having a bad effect on recruitment?

Mr. Maudling

I will do what I can to speed up the inquiry. I am concerned that it is taking so long.

Mr. Fowler

Would my right hon. Friend accept that many of us consider this a good award; but would he also accept that the past neglect of the Probation Service, neglect which has stretched back over many years, cannot be settled by one award, and that an inquiry is of vital importance? Can he say by when he hopes the inquiry will be set up and whether it will take outside evidence?

Mr. Maudling

When the inquiry is set up, I am sure that the chairman will decide from where he wants to draw evidence. So far as I am concerned, the wider the better. The date is determined by the new pay award, which will he from 1st July, 1972, and the purpose of the inquiry is to ensure that we are by then in a position to have good advice on the comparative pay positions of the Probation Service and other similar social services.

Mr. Merlyn Rees

Is the Home Secretary aware that within the last 48 hours representations have been made not about the general agreement, made in August, but because no news has reached the association concerned about the pay of principal probation officers and London weighting? The complaint is that it is taking an inordinately long time to deal with relatively. Has this now been dealt with, or is it still outstanding?

Mr. Maudling

The pay of the principal probation officers is still outstanding, but I hope to be able to make a move on that very shortly.