HC Deb 27 October 1971 vol 823 cc1717-8
16. Mr. Adley

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will make a statement on grants to subsidised railway lines.

Mr. Peyton

The Government are reviewing and will continue to review expenditure on unremunerative railway passenger services. Those which no longer offer value for money must be dispensed with.

Mr. Adley

I congratulate my right hon. Friend—

Mr. Speaker

Order. The hon. Member must ask a question, not offer congratulations.

Mr. Adley

While congratulating my right hon. Friend on the recent encouraging appointment of Mr. Richard Marsh, with whose views I am sure he wholeheartedly concurs on railway policy, may I ask him to bear in mind the tremendous social importance of maintaining rail services in urban areas? Is he aware that it is sometimes no more relevant to ask how much profit an urban railway line makes than to ask how much profit Oxford Street made last week?

Mr. Peyton

I am grateful for my hon. Friend's congratulations. I am also obliged for his comments, which in no way conflict with the Answer that I have given.

Mr. David Steel

Does the Minister agree that in those areas where unremunerative lines are closed, and therefore a substantial saving is made by his Department, it would be sensible to introduce smaller grants to the replacement bus services, as the subsidy from local authorities is not working?

Mr. Peyton

Substantial aid is given to rural bus services throughout the country. One of the difficulties in some cases is a reluctance on the part of local authorities to use this assistance.

Mr. Money

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the important social effects of his policy on areas like Suffolk and the already overcrowded roads in the eastern counties?

Mr. Peyton

Yes, of course, but I am sure that my hon. Friend would not be urging upon the present Government—any more than hon. Members opposite urged upon their Government—the maintenance of services that are wholly uneconomic.

Mr. Bradley

Does the right hon. Gentleman's statement mean that he has completely abandoned social criteria in his consideration of the retention of branch lines? In view of the importance of these grants to railway finances, will the right hon. Gentleman direct his judgment to their future level in conjunction with his request to British Rail to keep fare increases to a level of 5 per cent.?

Mr. Peyton

The hon. Gentleman most uncharacteristically is jumping to a conclusion which is in no way justified by what I said. I said that those which no longer offer value for money must be dispensed with. When I say "value for money" I am not omitting social values. I do not know why the hon. Gentleman should jump to this unjustified conclusion.