HC Deb 27 October 1971 vol 823 cc1718-20
17. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment how many council houses have been started and completed, respectively, to the latest available date this year and in the same period last year; and what steps he proposes to take to increase the numbers built.

Mr. Channon

In Great Britain, 78,544 permanent dwellings were started by local authorities in the period January to August, 1971, and 87,867 completed compared with 88,075 starts and 103,807 completions in the same period last year. It is the Government's aim in the reform of housing finance to concentrate subsidies on people and areas in need. This will help ensure a continued high level of building there.

Mr. Allaun

Is it not a fact that since May, 1968, when Conservative councils took over most town halls, council house starts have fallen each year? Will not this decrease be accelerated by the Government's rent proposals and a huge reduction of subsidies, particularly in the stress areas to which the hon. Gentleman referred a minute or two ago? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that I have checked with my own borough treasurer in the great stress area of Salford?

Mr. Channon

I do not agree. The proposals that the Government have in mind are to assist local authority building in areas of stress. That is where help is needed.

Mr. Tebbit

Can my hon. Friend confirm that in some parts of the country, notably around Thetford, council houses which are available for letting are often empty for lack of tenants? Is it not more important that we should note that in the first eight months of this year 10,000 or 11,000 more starts in total were made, and not muck about with which sector they are in, so long as we are housing families who need houses?

Mr. Channon

I agree. It shows how ridiculous it is to adopt the total approach that the hon. Member for Salford, East (Mr. Frank Allaun) has adopted. We want to help areas of stress to achieve housing completions.

Miss Devlin

In view of the Minister's statement that he wishes to concentrate on areas of need, will he bear in mind that in one area of the United Kingdom the amount of revenue collected in rent fell short of the amount of money necessary to repay the interest, let alone the debt? In order to improve and build more council houses, will he consider the cancellation of the Northern Ireland housing debt to the central banks and, if necessary, the emergency nationalisation of the building industry?

Mr. Channon

I note what the hon. Lady says, but my right hon. Friend's responsibilities, although wide, do not extend to Northern Ireland.

Mr. Freeson

If I heard the rather rapidly-stated figures aright, the Minister indicated a fall in housing starts in the first three quarters of this year of about 10,000 in the public sector, and he answered the criticism implied by those figures by saying that we need to concentrate on stress areas. In a recent speech to his party conference his right hon. Friend expressed confidence that there would be clearance of the country's slums during this decade. That implies, on the basis of something approaching 2 million slums—[HON. MEMBERS; "Ask a question."] If there are 2 million slums in this country, as stated officially by the Government in their White Paper, do we not need to build in the public sector about 200,000 dwellings a year for slum clearance purposes alone? How can he be satisfied on the figures cited to us?

Mr. Channon

On the contrary; the hon. Gentleman mistakes the position. It is not necessary to build all these dwellings in the public sector. I hope that the hon. Member, like all other hon. Members, will greatly appreciate the fact that the rate of slum clearance is rising so fast.