HC Deb 04 August 1971 vol 822 cc1621-42

Lords Amendment: No. 90, in page 36, leave out lines 29 to 34 and insert: appearing to the Commission to be directly concerned in the questions specified in the reference".

5.15 p.m.

Mr. Dudley Smith

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

The purpose of the Amendment is to require the Commission on Industrial Relations to send a copy of its report under Clause 46 not only to the recommended bargaining agent but also to any other organisations of workers which appear to the Commission to be directly concerned in the questions considered by it. This seems to us a sensible and desirable change, and, what is more, it is in accordance with the C.I.R's present practice.

It seems right, for instance, that, as a matter of courtesy, any organisation of workers whose claims to recognition were considered in a Clause 46 report should receive a copy of the report rather than have to read about it in the Press or buy a copy for themselves. This is a small but sensible adjustment, and I hope that the Opposition will be able to accept it.

Question put and agreed to.

Lords Amendment: No. 91, in page 37, line 1, after "and" insert "professional or other".

Mr. R. Carr

I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.

Clause 46(3) gives directions to the C.I.R. as to the sort of considerations that it must take into account in making a recommendation about bargaining agents. It says that: … the Commission shall consider the extent to which different descriptions of employees in that group have interests in common, having regard in particular, in relation to each such description of employees, to—

  1. (a) the nature of the work which they are employed to do, and
  2. (b) their training, experience and qualifications."

The Amendment will make the last reference one to "professional or other" qualifications and will allay fears expressed in the early stages of the Bill and very strongly in another place.

We could see no objection to introducing this. We believe that it makes the position clearer and reassures people who were concerned that otherwise their point of view and their needs might not have to be taken into account. It is for clarification and to set at rest the fears of people who have no reason to fear but whom we thought it right to reassure.

Mr. Harold Walker

Whatever the right hon. Gentleman thinks he has achieved by trying to reassure certain people of certain things, he has not reassured me of anything. I remind him of our powerful expression of opposition to the division of trade unionists that is represented by the special register and this method of catering for professional workers.

That powerful opposition was voiced on Report, and I do not recall the right hon. Gentleman presenting an adequate explanation on that occasion of what the Government mean by professional workers or professional persons. What criteria are to be employed to remove these individuals from the rest of the trade union movement?

The right hon. Gentleman will recall that on a number of occasions he lectured me about the wordiness of proposals. I recall his complaints about the superfluity of words in legislation. Indeed, I remember the right hon. Gentleman frequently using the word "tautology" in this context. Why has he now introduced these superfluous words? If it is desirable to have this discrimination in favour of a certain group of people, it should be covered by the existing wording which relates to their training, experience and qualifications.

The right hon. Gentleman talked about the need to allay fears, but he did not say what they were or who had voiced them. He then said that these steps were being taken to reassure people. Who needs reassuring? Then he told us that certain needs had to be met. What are they?

While acknowledging the practicalities of the situation and the need to modify absolute principles to meet the real needs of the situation, the guiding principle should always be that justice is indivisible. Likewise, the trade union movement is indivisible. Here the right hon. Gentleman is introducing something that is divisive, and unless he can offer a satisfactory explanation, I shall have to recommend my hon. Friends to oppose the Amendment in the Lobby.

Mr. Orme

The Secretary of State began by referring to a direction to the C.I.R. Earlier he said that the C.I.R. was independent and free—that George Woodcock had resigned not because he did not want to work with the C.I.R. but because the T.U.C. had made it impossible for him to do so. Now he is saying that the C.I.R. is to be directed to take special account of professional organisations and others.

This division which the right hon. Gentleman is attempting to create within the trade union movement, between ordinary and professional groups of workers, is deplorable. Those of us who have the trade union movement at heart have watched with pride the spread of unionism into the middle classes and professional groups. Bona fide trade unions have sprung up in many sections of the professional sphere where unionism did not exist previously. The right hon. Gentleman seems to be trying to call a deliberate halt to this progress through the special register and by the C.I.R. being directed to treat certain groups of workers differently.

My hon. Friend the Member for Don-caster (Mr. Harold Walker) asked some pertinent questions to which the right hon. Gentleman must reply. We are entitled to know what the fears are and who expressed them. Have they come from doctors, nurses or professional engineers? Hon. Members may have in mind one professional organisation which was involved in the infamous Newcastle-upon-Tyne case. Why do the Government wish to introduce different standards for professional workers? I ask this without any hostility to these people.

With the development of the multinational company, higher management and other professional groups are realising the importance of trade unionism. They need protection nowadays because many of the decisions affecting their future are taken not in Britain but in the United States, Frankfurt and elsewhere.

Mr. Rose

Will my hon. Friend comment on the problem that will face many professional workers who are not members of professional organisations which are chartered or limited companies? Is it not a fact that many professional workers who join organisations which are real trade unions in the full sense of the term, such as A.S.T.M.S., will be placed at a severe disadvantage as a result of this Measure? Does my hon. Friend agree that the real purpose of this part of the Bill and of the special register is to undermine the extension of professional trade unionism by using the phrase "professional workers" in an entirely different sense?

Mr. Orme

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, particularly in referring to the fantastic success that A.S.T.M.S. has had in recent years in organising beyond the level of what are called ordinary workers and into the professional classes. He is also right to say that this Measure may result in professional workers being placed in a different category from their counterparts and that this could represent a threat to the extended organisation of bodies like A.S.T.M.S.

It is clear that the battle will be fought far from the factory bench. The traditional conflict that has gone on over trade union matters of this kind in the mines and docks will be transferred to the higher echelons of the industrial sphere, mainly because of the vast number of workers in the middle category of management and those with professional ability who have become organised in trade unions.

The right hon. Gentleman is going out of his way to protect small select groups. The Royal College of Nursing comes to mind in this context. Many organisations have not been militant in fighting for the rights of their members. For example, the rights of nurses were not sufficiently sought because the nurses' representatives did not consider the task of improving rights a suitable job for them. Bank employees also found the need for trade unionism. It was not until the Union of Bank Employees was formed, and exposed the manner in which its members had been left behind, that a sufficient change was brought about in banking.

Many organisations representing select groups of workers have not developed in a trade union sense. Does the right hon. Gentleman feel that these provisions will in any way inhibit the activities of, for example, Clive Jenkins? Why is he taking this action?

Mr. R. Carr

Do not these people have the same rights as others to develop their organisations as they wish? Why, because they want to do it their way, should they automatically be labelled reactionary, when other people are automatically labelled progressive?

5.30 p.m.

Mr. Orme

They were so unsuccessful on representing those whom they purported to represent that these other organisations have replaced them. My accusation is that the Minister is trying to bolster up these old organisations, and stop the spread of broad trade unionism in the sense of unions which are affiliated to the T.U.C. and prepared to associate with industrial trade unionism. I should have thought that the Minister, and particularly the Prime Minister, who talks of the classless society, would have been pleased to see the professional unions more towards the T.U.C. We believe that these present proposals will retard that movement.

Mr. David Mitchell (Basingstoke)

It becomes increasingly obvious that the hon. Member for Salford, West (Mr. Orme) is having great difficulty in sustaining the mountain of rhetoric he heaps on every House of Lords Amendment. He has just referred to the C.I.R. being dictated to, yet in the Bill we find that, far from the C.I.R. being dictated to, the whole of the relevant passage is qualified by the words "the Commission shall consider" or the "Commission shall have regard".

There is no question there of dictatorship, of the wording being binding on the C.I.R. in its totality. Paragraph (b) adds that it is designed to … promote a satisfactory and lasting settlement of the questions in issue in the reference. How can that be tied up with the hon. Gentleman's comments, which indicated a deep purpose of dissension in the Government's mind, and a degree of dictatorship to the C.I.R. which is not in the Bill?

Mr. Ronald King Murray

The words "professional or other" appear to be wholly out of place, and the explanation given to us does not convince me. The present wording of the appropriate part of the subsection covers the nature of the work the people are employed to do, and their training, experience and qualifications. A moment ago the Secretary of State said that we were all equal in our wishes, or that they were all equal in their wishes; I am not sure which version he used. If the right hon. Gentleman really means what he says, the logic of his thinking should be to leave paragraph (b) as it stands, because no artificial distinction is made with regard to training, experience or qualifications.

I do not want to be legalistic, but I think that both from the legal point of view and from the point of view of common sense the word "qualifications" is very apt to cover the whole spectrum of qualifications of the semi-skilled worker up to the highly-skilled technician and up to and including the highest level of professional qualifications. Therefore, the use of the word "qualifications" does all that this part of the Bill is required to do, according to what the Secretary of State has told us.

If that is so, it is impossible to appreciate why the words "professional or other" are brought in. They do not qualify anything. On the contrary, they rather introduce an ambiguity, and suggest that at least some kind of distinction is being drawn between professional and non-professional qualifications. Yet it appears from what we have been told that that is not intended. In that case, why put in these words?

There is a rule of law known as the ejusdem generis rule, though I hesitate to say that it applies here. Yet it is just possible that that rule might be conceived of as applying here, in which case the word "professional" would, as it were, redirect the meaning of "or other", and that instead of reading this in the sense of professional qualifications on the one hand and other qualifications on the other the two might be taken together.

The Solicitor-General

Would not the hon. and learned Gentleman acknowledge that his own extreme hesitation in advancing that argument—and it is inadmissible in this context—is due to the fact that it refers only to "professional or other", and that by identifying only the professional qualification it is not taken to identify a genus, and that it is for that reason that his argument, rightly advanced with hesitation, is without foundation?

Mr. Murray

I am grateful to the Solicitor-General for his intervention. I put the argument forward very tentatively, and he is probably right to say that it is not a sound argument. On the other hand, I am not convinced by what the Solicitor-General said, because it seems not certain that a court would take the view that no genus is defined. The word "professional" is special, and if one comes across that word with other words of qualification the normal canon would bring the ejusdem generis rule into play. The word "professional" is very special, and if we have that word with the words "or other qualifications" for the first time a court might take the view that this word, with the others attached, might attract that principle. I put it as a possibility which cannot be ruled out, and as long as that possibility exists I ask the right hon. Gentleman to reconsider the Amendment.

Mr. R. Carr

I admire and welcome the ingenuities of the hon. and learned Gentleman the Member for Edinburgh, Leith (Mr. Murray), and I am even more grateful to my hon. and learned Friend the Solicitor-General for entering into a legal argument, which, as a non-lawyer, I am not able to do. It may not surprise the hon. and learned Gentleman to learn that I am more inclined to take my hon. and learned Friend's advice than his on this occasion.

The hon. Member for Doncaster (Mr. Harold Walker) pointed out with some fairness that in recent years, when he and I sat on different sides of the House from those on which we now sit, I used at times to chide him for the inclusion of unnecessary words in legislation, and I do not in any way object to his getting his own back. It is now my turn to bend over and take six of the best, and I receive them, I hope, with equanimity.

The reason for the introduction of these words was to allay fears, and to reassure. Hon. Members opposite have asked "Who? "and" What?", but their remarks show that they know the answers. The people in mind are people like professional engineers, doctors, and the like, who find themselves in modern employment, in the way in which both modern industry and modern medical research, for instance, is developing, working in the midst of a large number of people in conditions which did not apply some years ago. Those people have genuine fears. The fears may be unreasonable; fears often are, even though they are genuine. I do not think that we should in any way object to giving reassurance provided that in doing so we do not harm anyone else. I do not believe that this recognition of those fears and this reassurance in any way harm anyone else. I therefore see no objection to the Amendment.

The subsection of which the phrase forms part charges the Commission not only to take account of these things and these people but to take account of the identities and common interests of all groups of employees within the union at which the Commission is looking. It is, therefore, not exclusive of others. We have here people who increasingly find themselves as little minority groups within larger units and, whether they are reasonable or right, they have these fears and it is right to reassure them.

The hon. Member for Salford, West (Mr. Orme) pointed out that trade unions were now spreading into the middle and professional classes. That is right and inevitable, and it will go on. But, if that is so, I should have thought that not only did we owe these people the right to develop their organisations in their own way, but that if the more traditional type of trade union, to put it that way, wanted to win them over into its ranks, and it could well be in their long-term interests so to be won, such a trade union would be well advised not to have overridden, or to have seemed to have overridden, the genuine fears of such people. Rightly or wrongly, some of them are afraid that they will be swallowed in an environment which is alien to them and which at this stage they do not believe to be in their interests.

It may well come about that if the trade unions concerned advance their cause and their recruiting with some sensitivity for the feelings of these people and for the feelings of others, they will be won over, in which case that will probably be for the general orderliness of the industry and the bargaining that has to take place and in the interests of the people concerned, but these feelings must be treated with a little sensitivity and understanding.

Mr. Rose

Would not the right hon. Gentleman treat with the same sensitivity and understand the fears advanced by many members of organisations such as A.S.T.M.S., because by definition many professional workers have to join a professional organisation in order to work in the profession and that professional organisation may have some negotiating right which automatically puts A.S.T.M.S. at a disadvantage?

Secondly and more important, if it does not register, it cannot get an agency shop, and the organisation which does register may apply for an agency shop, so that A.S.T.M.S. would be at a second disadvantage. I believe that A.S.T.M.S. would overcome that disadvantage as there are various methods of doing so, but, with his great sensitivity, does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that these fears are being expressed far and wide by many professional workers?

Mr. Carr

Of course I do. One way out of one dilemma of A.S.T.M.S. would be to register, and that would be sensible, right and proper. But if it decides not to do so—and it is perfectly free so to decide—it is not free to decide in all ways, to do some things but not to do others.

Of course we recognise the fears of members of A.S.T.M.S., but in any particular circumstances we ought to appreciate more particularly the fears of a minority. It will be within the recollection of the House that when these matters were discussed earlier I strongly refused to consider suggestions for giving in specific terms special consideration to some minorities but not to others. I said that if I had some understanding of the fears of two or three doctors working among 300 or 400 clerical workers, equally I could understand the fears of two or three clerical workers working among 300 or 400 doctors. In whatever circumstances, one should have particular regard to the genuine fears of the minority. That is what we are doing here.

Mr. Harold Walker

Would the right hon. Gentleman express equal concern on behalf of those tiny minorities which are discriminated against by professional bodies? Here I hope I shall touch a responsive chord in the right hon. Gentleman. He and I were discussing our mutual disabilities the other evening and we were referring to the way in which osteopaths are not recognised by the medical profession and as such discriminated against by a profession organisation. I should like him equally to turn his attention to that kind of situation.

Mr. Carr

Indeed, but that is not an industrial relations matter. That is a matter of statutory professional qualifications, the sort of qualifications which the country in its wisdom, or lack of it, believes it right for a man to possess before he can offer a certain service in certain important areas. It is an important matter, but this does not concern the industrial relations position of minorities, which is what we are concerned with now.

The Opposition are, of course, entirely free to decide whether to divide the House. We believe that these words should be included. We believe that they will allay fears which may be unfounded, but which are genuine, without harming majority interests now or in prospect.

5.45 p.m.

Mr. Charles Curran (Uxbridge)

I am glad that my right hon. Friend is sticking firmly to the point and refusing to retreat before the rather confused arguments which are being addressed to him. This is a matter of great importance. The question is whether people with professional qualifications are to be allowed to stick together if they want to.

I listened with interest to the hon. Member for Salford, West (Mr. Orme). If I understood him aright, he said that there was something wrong about that and that it was a matter for suspicion, alarm and apprehension if people holding professional qualifications in accountancy, engineering, or medicine chose when entering industry to act collectively with others sharing that qualification. I cannot for the life of me see why they should not. I cannot see why, if they choose to do their bargaining through a professional organisation, the law should get in their way.

Mr. Orme

The hon. Gentleman has got my argument wrong. We are not opposing professional people joining an organisation of accountants or lawyers. We are saying that where appropriate they should also join a bona fide trade union.

Mr. Curran

Exactly. The hon. Gentleman has put it very clearly. He did not put it so clearly in his speech. If people want to join a trade union, by all means let them do so; but what about those who do not? Is the hon. Gentleman prepared to give people who wish to do their bargaining through a professional organisation and do not want to join a trade union the freedom so to choose, or does he wish to deprive them of that freedom?

Mr. Orme

If people who are not in a union do not expect and do not receive the benefits enjoyed by those who do join, there may be some justification in that argument.

Mr. Curran

The hon. Gentleman is now trying to shift the argument. I bring him back to the straight question. Let us imagine that a professional engineer, who is a member of his professional organisation, joins industry and chooses that his bargaining about his terms of employment should be done through his professional body. As things are, he is free to do so and he is free to say that he will not join a trade union. Does the hon. Gentleman propose to take that freedom from him now?

Mr. Orme

The hon. Gentleman missed my argument.

Mr. Curran

On the contrary; the hon. Gentleman appreciates the argument, but he declines to meet it. He was more explicit in his interruption than he was in his speech, but his speech was a plea in support of the assertion that professional people should be compelled to join trade unions even if they did not want to join. I believe that the House does not have the smallest right to say to professional people in industry that if they do not want to join a union Parliament will make them do so.

Mr. Ernest Fernyhough (Jarrow)

I agree that the man who does not want to join a trade union on that basis has every right to say that nobody should compel him. However, if the firm says that he cannot join it unless he joins the superannuation scheme, would the hon. Gentleman think that that man had a right to withdraw from that superannuation scheme?

Mr. Curran

That, too, is a separate question. There may well be a case for saying that an employer should not have that right, but that is not what I am arguing; that is a separate question. I am arguing the question which is before the House, raised by this Amendment. I am interested to see how far I can get an answer as to whether the Labour Party is saying that professional men who go to work in industry are to be free as they are now to leave bargaining on their behalf to their professional organisations or whether it is saying that this freedom must be taken away and these men compelled to bargain not through their professional bodies but through a trade union.

Mr. John Mendelson (Penistone)

I do not recall the hon. Gentleman normally wishing to attribute to the Labour Party or to any other group something that is not so. It is uncharacteristic of him, and he knows I mean that. What is behind this—and let us take the steel works as an example—is that there have been many organisations over the years—A.S.T.M.S. is not the only one; the Steel Confederation is another—which have sought to recruit middle and junior management and felt it right to have them in the same organisation, expressing solidarity. That is what is behind the Amendment, not the general problem of whether there is a right to belong to a union. We object to people in professional bodies being placed in a special category because we fear that this will militate in future against the desire of the unions to recruit junior and middle management into their ranks. That is all there is to it.

Mr. Curran

I do not care whether it does militate against the tendency which the hon. Gentleman regards as admirable. That is a matter of opinion. If professional people go into the steel industry and choose to join a trade union, in the sense that the hon. Gentleman is using that phrase, then by all means let them do so. I do not have the smallest objection, and neither have the Government. Suppose such people do not want to join. Are they still to have their present freedom? Apparently not. There will be freedom one way but not the other. The hon. Gentleman seems to think like Henry Ford, that they can have it in any colour they like as long as it is red. [Interruption.] It is interesting to see how unwilling the critics are to face our questions plainly and answer them plainly.

I am glad to see that the Minister will not be shaken by these cloudy and disingenuous arguments, all the more so since in the past the trade union move

ment has been willing enough and eager enough to recognise that there are distinctions between skilled and unskilled workers. If skilled workers wish to form a union of their own the trade union movement has never discouraged it. It has never said, "We cannot permit unions for skilled workers". Yet when we ask for the same principle to be applied to the new kind of worker now entering industry we are told that such a principle is monstrous. It seems that the case against this is not only muddled and disingenuous but an attempt to undermine the principles on which trade unionism has been based.

Question put, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment:—

The House divided: Ayes 265 Noes 227.

Division No. 460.] AYES [5.45 p.m.
Adley, Robert Coombs, Derek Grimond, Rt. Hn. J.
Alison, Michael (Barkston Ash) Corfield, Rt. Hn. Frederick Grylls, Michael
Allason, James (Hemel Hempstead) Cormack, Patrick Gummer, Selwyn
Archer, Jeffrey (Louth) Costain, A. P. Gurden, Harold
Atkins, Humphrey Critchley, Julian Hall, Miss Joan (Keighley)
Awdry, Daniel Crouch, David Hall, John (Wycombe)
Baker, Kenneth (St. Marylebone) Curran, Charles Hall-Davis, A. G. F.
Baker, W. H. K. (Banff) Davies, Rt. Hn. John (Knutsford) Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury)
Balniel, Lord d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry Hannam, John (Exeter)
Barber, Rt. Hn. Anthony d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Maj.-Gen.James Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye)
Batsford, Brian Dean, Paul Haselhurst, Alan
Beamish, Col. Sir Tufton Deedes, Rt. Hn. W. F. Hastings, Stephen
Bennett, Sir Frederic (Torquay) Dixon, Piers Havers, Michael
Benyon, W. Dodds-Parker, Douglas Hawkins, Paul
Berry, Hn. Anthony Douglas-Home, Rt. Hn. Sir Alec Hay, John
Biffen, John Drayson, G. B. Hayhoe, Barney
Biggs-Davison, John du Cann, Rt. Hn. Edward Hicks, Robert
Blaker, Peter Eden, Sir John Higgins, Terence L.
Boardman, Tom (Leicester, S. W.) Edwards, Nicholas (Pembroke) Hiley, Joseph
Body, Richard Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshalton) Hill, John E. B. (Norfolk, S.)
Boscawen, Robert Emery, Peter Hill, James (Southampton, Test)
Bossom, Sir Clive Eyre, Reginald Holt, Miss Mary
Bowden, Andrew Farr, John Hordern, Peter
Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hn. John Fell, Anthony Hornby, Richard
Braine, Bernard Fenner, Mrs. Peggy Hornsby-Smith, Rt. Hn. Dame Patricia
Bray, Ronald Fidler, Michael Howe, Hn. Sir Geoffrey (Reigate)
Brewis, John Finsberg, Geoffrey (Hampstead) Howell, David (Guildford)
Brinton, Sir Tatton Fisher, Nigel (Surbiton) Howell, Ralph (Norfolk, N.)
Brocklebank-Fowler, Christopher Fookes, Miss Janet Hunt, John
Brown, Sir Edward (Bath) Fortescue, Tim Hutchison, Michael Clark
Bruce-Gardyne, J. Fowler, Norman Iremonger, T. L.
Bryan, Paul Fox, Marcus James, David
Buchanan-Smith, Alick (Angus, N&M) Fraser, Rt. Hn. Hugh (St'fford & Stone) Jessel, Toby
Buck, Antony Fry, Peter Johnson Smith, G. (E. Grinstead)
Bullus, Sir Eric Galbraith, Hn. T. G. Jopling, Michael
Burden, F. A. Gardner, Edward Kaberry, Sir Donald
Butler, Adam (Bosworth) Gibson-Watt, David Kellett-Bowman, Mrs. Elaine
Carlisle, Mark Gilmour, Ian (Norfolk, C.) Kilfedder, James
Carr, Rt. Hn. Robert Gilmour, Sir John (Fife, E.) King, Evelyn (Dorset, S.)
Channon, Paul Godber, Rt. Hn. J. B. Kinsey, J. R.
Chapman, Sydney Goodhart, Philip Kirk, Peter
Chichester-Clark, R. Goodhew, Victor Knox, David
Churchill, W. S. Gorst, John Lambton, Antony
Clark, William (Surrey, E.) Gower, Raymond Lane, David
Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe) Gray, Hamish Langford-Holt, Sir John
Clegg, Walter Green, Alan Legge-Bourke, Sir Harry
Cockeram, Eric Grieve, Percy Le Marchant, Spencer
Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) Owen, Idris (Stockport, N.) Tapsell, Peter
Longden, Gilbert Page, Graham (Crosby) Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne)
Loveridge, John Page, John (Harrow, W.) Taylor, Edward M. (G'gow, Cathcart)
Luce, R. N. Parkinson, Cecil (Enfield, W.) Taylor, Frank (Moss Side)
McAdden, Sir Stephen Peel, John Taylor, Robert (Croydon, N. W.)
MacArthur, Ian Percival, Ian Tebbit, Norman
McCrindle, R. A. Pink, R. Bonner Temple, John M.
McLaren, Martin Pounder, Rafton Thatcher, Rt. Hn. Mrs. Margaret
Maclean, Sir Fitzroy Powell, Rt. Hn. J. Enoch Thomas, John Stradling (Monmouth)
McMaster, Stanley Prior, Rt. An. J. M. L. Thompson, Sir Richard (Croydon, S.)
Macmillan, Maurice (Farnham) Pym, Rt. Hn. Francis Thorpe, Rt. Hn. Jeremy
McNair-Wilson, Michael Raison, Timothy Tilney, John
McNair-Wilson, Patrick (NewForest) Rawlinson, Rt. Hn. Sir Peter Trafford, Dr. Anthony
Maddan, Martin Redmond, Robert Trew, Peter
Madel, David Reed, Laurance (Bolton, E.) Tugendhat, Christopher
Marten, Neil Rees, Peter (Dover) Turton, Rt. Hn. Sir Robin
Mather, Carol Rees-Davies, W. R. van Straubenzee, W. R.
Maude, Angus Renton, Rt. Hn. Sir David Vaughan, Dr. Gerard
Mawby, Ray Rhys Williams, Sir Brandon Vickers, Dame Joan
Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. Ridley, Hn. Nicholas Waddington, David
Meyer, Sir Anthony Ridsdale, Julian Walder, David (Clitheroe)
Mills, Peter (Torrington) Roberts, Wyn (Conway) Walker, Rt. Hn. Peter (Worcester)
Mitchelt, Lt.-Col. C. (Aberdeenshire, W) Rodgers, Sir John (Sevenoaks) Walker-Smith, Rt. Hn. Sir Derek
Mitchell, David (Basingstoke) Rost, Peter Wall, Patrick
Moate, Roger Russell, Siir Ronald Walters, Dennis
Molyneaux, James Scott, Nicholas Ward, Dame Irene
Money, Ernle Scott-Hopkins, James Weatherill, Bernard
Monks, Mrs. Connie Sharples, Richard Wells, John (Maidstone)
Monro, Hector Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & Whitby) White, Roger (Gravesend)
Montgomery, Fergus Shelton, William (Clapham) Whitelaw, Rt. Hn. William
More, Jasper Simeons, Charles Wiggin, Jerry
Morgan-Giles, Rear-Adm. Sinclair, Sir George Wilkinson, John
Morrison, Charles (Devizes) Skeet, T. H. H. Wolrige-Gordon, Patrick
Mudd, David Smith, Dudley (W'wick & L'mington) Wood, Rt. Hn. Richard
Murton, Oscar Soref, Harold Woodhouse, Hn. Christopher
Neave, Airey Spence, John Woodnutt, Mark
Noble, Rt. Hn. Michael Sproat, Iain Worsley, Marcus
Normanton, Tom Stanbrook, Ivor Wylie, Rt. Hn. N. R.
Nott, John Stewart-Smith, Geoffrey (Stepney)
Onslow, Cranley Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir M. TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Oppenheim, Mrs. Sally Stokes, John Mr. Keith Speed and
Orr, Capt. L. P. S. Stuttaford, Dr. Tom Mr. Hugh Rossi.
Osborn, John Sutcliffe, John
Albu, Austen Cox, Thomas (Wandsworth, C.) Ford, Ben
Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) Crawshaw, Richard Forrester, John
Allen, Scholefield Cronin, John Fraser, John (Norwood)
Archer, Peter (Rowley Regis) Cunningham, G. (Islington, S. W.) Galpern, Sir Myer
Ashley, Jack Dalyell, Tam Garrett, W. E.
Ashton, Joe Darling, Rt. Hn. George Gilbert, Dr. John
Atkinson, Norman Davidson, Arthur Golding, John
Bagier, Gordon A. T. Davies, Denzil (Llanelly) Gordon Walker, Rt. Hn. P. C.
Barnes, Michael Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) Gourlay, Harry
Barnett, Guy (Greenwich) Davies, Ifor (Gower) Grant, George (Morpeth)
Barnett, Joel Davies, S. O. (Merthyr Tydvil) Grant, John D. (Islington, E.)
Beaney, Alan Davis, Clinton (Hackney, C.) Griffiths, Eddie (Brightside)
Benn, Rt. Hn. Anthony Wedgwood Davis, Terry (Bromsgrove) Hamilton, James (Bothwell)
Bennett, James (Glasgow, Bridgeton) de Freitas, Rt. Hn. Sir Geoffrey Hamilton, William (Fife, W.)
Bidwell, Sydney Delargy, H. J. Hamling, William
Bishop, E. S. Dell, Rt. Hn. Edmund Hannan, William (G'gow, Maryhill)
Blenkinsop, Arthur Doig, Peter Hardy, Peter
Boardman, H. (Leigh) Douglas, Dick (Stirlingshire, E.) Harper, Joseph
Booth Albert Douglas-Mann, Bruce Harrison, Walter (Wakefield)
Bottomley, Rt. Hn. Arthur Driberg, Tom Hart, Rt. Hn. Judith
Boyden, James (Bishop Auckland) Duffy, A. E. P. Hattersley, Roy
Bradley, Tom Dunnett, Jack Healey, Rt. Hn. Denis
Brown, Bob (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, W.) Eadie, Alex Heffer, Eric S.
Brown, Hugh D. (G'gow, Provan) Edwards, Robert (Bilston) Horam, John
Buchan, Norman Edwards, William (Merioneth) Houghton, Rt. Hn. Douglas
Buchanan, Richard (G'gow, Sp'burn) Ellis, Tom Howell, Denis (Small Heath)
Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) English, Michael Huckfield, Leslie
Callaghan, Rt. Hn. James Evans, Fred Hughes, Mark (Durham)
Campbell, I. (Dunbartonshire, W.) Faulds, Andrew Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen, N.)
Cant, R. B. Fernyhough, Rt. Hn. E. Hughes, Roy (Newport)
Castle, Rt. Hn. Barbara Fisher, Mrs. Doris (B 'ham, Ladywood) Hunter, Adam
Clark, David (Colne Valley) Fitch, Alan (Wigan) Irvine, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur (Edge Hill)
Cocks, Michael (Bristol, S.) Fitt, Gerard (Belfast, W.) Janner, Greville
Cohen, Stanley Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) Jay, Rt. Hn. Douglas
Conlan, Bernard Foley, Maurice Jeger, Mrs. Lena (H'b'n&St. P'cras, S.)
Corbet, Mrs. Freda Foot, Michael Jenkins, Hugh (Putney)
Jenkins, Rt. Hn. Roy (Stechford) Mendelson, John Sandelson, Neville
John, Brynmor Millan, Bruce Sheldon, Robert (Ashton-under-Lyne)
Johnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.) Miller, Dr. M. S. Shore, Rt. Hn. Peter (Stepney)
Johnson, James (K'ston-on-Hull, W.) Milne, Edward (Blyth) Short, Mrs. Renée (W'hampton, N. E.)
Johnson, Walter (Derby, S.) Mitchell, R. C. (S'hampton, Itchen) Silkin, Hn. S. C. (Dulwich)
Jones, Barry (Flint, E.) Molloy, William Silverman, Julius
Jones, Dan (Burnley) Morgan, Elystan (Cardiganshire) Skinner, Dennis
Jones, Rt. Hn. Sir Elwyn (W. Ham, S.) Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) Small, William
Jones, Gwynoro (Carmarthen) Morris, Rt. Hn. John (Aberavon) Smith, John (Lanarkshire, N.)
Jones, T. Alec (Rhondda, W.) Moyle, Roland Spearing, Nigel
Judd, Frank Mulley, Rt. Hn. Frederick Spriggs, Leslie
Kaufman, Gerald Murray, Ronald King Stallard, A. W.
Kelley, Richard Ogden, Eric Stoddart, David (Swindon)
Kinnock, Neil O'Halloran, Michael Stonehouse, Rt. Hn. John
Lambie, David O'Malley, Brian Strang, Gavin
Latham, Arthur Oram, Bert Summerskill, Hn. Dr. Shirley
Lawson, George Orme, Stanley Thomas, Rt. Hn. George (Cardiff, W.)
Leadbitter, Ted Oswald, Thomas Thomas, Jeffrey (Abertillery)
Lee, Rt. Hn. Frederick Owen, Dr. David (Plymouth, Sutton) Thomson, Rt. Hn. G. (Dundee, E.)
Leonard, Dick Paget, R. T. Tinn, James
Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) Palmer, Arthur Tomney, Tom
Lipton, Marcus Panned, Rt. Hn. Charles Torney, Tom
Loughlin, Charles Parry, Robert (Liverpool, Exchange) Tuck, Rachael
Lyon, Alexander W. (York) Peart, Rt. Hn. Fred Urwin, T. W.
Lyons, Edward (Bradford, E.) Pendry, Tom Varley, Eric G.
Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson Pentland, Norman Wainwright, Edwin
McBride, Neil Perry, Ernest G. Walker, Harold (Doncaster)
McGuire, Michael Prentice, Rt. Hn. Reg. Wallace, George
Mackenzie, Gregor Prescott, John Watkins, David
Mackie, John Price, J. T. (Westhoughton) Weitzman, David
Maclennan, Robert Probert, Arthur Whitehead, Phillip
McMillan, Tom (Glasgow, C.) Reed, D. (Sedgefield) Wiley, Rt. Hn. Frederick
McNamara, J. Kevin Rees, Merlyn (Leeds, S.) Williams, Alan (Swansea, W.)
Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfield, E.) Rhodes, Geoffrey Williams, Mrs. Shirley (Hitchin)
Marks, Kenneth Richard, Ivor Wilson, Alexander (Hamilton)
Marquand, David Roberts, Albert (Normanton) Wilson, William (Coventry, S.)
Marsden, F. Roberts, Rt. Hn. Goronwy (Caemarvon) Woof, Robert
Marshall, Dr. Edmund Robertson, John (Paisley)
Mason, Rt. Hn. Roy Rodgers, William (Stockton-on-Tees) TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Meacher, Michael Roper, John Mr. Donald Coleman and
Mellish, Rt. Hn. Robert Rose, Paul B. Mr. Ernest Armstrong.

Lords Amendment: No. 92, in page 38, line 8, at end insert:

("(8) Where the Commission determine, in making a report under this section, to recommend the recognition of an organisation of workers or joint negotiation panel as sole bargaining agent for a bargaining unit, and it appears to the Commission that there are in existence more extensive bargaining arrangements which will be applicable to the employees comprised or to be comprised in that bargaining unit, the recommendation—

(a) may specify the more extensive bargaining arrangements in question, and

10 (b) may be made subject to the reservation that the organisation or panel, at any time when it is recognised as sole bargaining agent in pursuance of the recommendation, shall not have exclusive negotiating rights in respect of matters which are at that time being dealt with under
15 the specified arrangements or which are then the subject of a collective agreement negotiated under those arrangements.")

Read a Second time.

Amendment proposed to the Lords Amendment: In line 9, leave out from "question" to end of Amendment.—[Mr. Harold Walker]

Question put, That the Amendment be made to the Lords Amendment:—

The House divided: Ayes 230, Noes 268.

Division No. 461.] AYES [6.05 p.m.
Albu, Austen Ashton, Joe Barnett, Joel
Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) Atkinson, Norman Beaney, Alan
Alten, Scholefield Bagier, Gordon A. T. Benn, Rt. Hn. Anthony Wedgwood
Archer, Peter (Rowley Regis) Barnes, Michael Bennett, James (Glasgow, Bridgeton)
Ashley, Jack Barnett, Guy (Greenwich) Bidwell, Sydney
Bishop, E. S. Hamilton, William (Fife, W.) Moyle, Roland
Blenkinsop, Arthur Hamling, William Mulley, Rt. Hn. Frederick
Boardman, H. (Leigh) Hannan, William (G'gow, Maryhill) Murray, Ronald King
Booth, Albert Hardy, Peter Ogden, Eric
Bottomley, Rt. Hn. Arthur Harper, Joseph O'Halloran, Michael
Boyden, James (Bishop Auckland) Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) O'Malley, Brian
Bradley, Tom Hart, Rt. Hn. Judith Oram, Bert
Brown, Bob (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, W.) Hattersley, Roy Orme, Stanley
Brown, Hugh D. (G'gow, Provan) Healey, Rt. Hn, Denis Oswald, Thomas
Buchan, Norman Heffer, Eric S. Owen, Dr. David (Plymouth, Sutton)
Buchanan, Richard (C'gow, Sp'bum) Horam, John Paget, R. T.
Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) Houghton, Rt. Hn. Douglas Palmer, Arthur
Callaghan, Rt. Hn. James Howell, Denis (Small Heath) Pannell, Rt. Hn. Charles
Campbell, I. (Dunbartonshire, W.) Huckfield, Leslie Parry, Robert (Liverpool, Exchange)
Cant, R. B. Hughes, Mark (Durham) Peart, Rt. Hn. Fred
Carmichael, Neil Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen, N.) Pendry, Tom
Castle, Rt. Hn. Barbara Hughes, Roy (Newport) Pentland, Norman
Clark, David (Colne Valley) Hunter, Adam Perry, Ernest G.
Cocks, Michael (Bristol, S.) Irvine, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur (Edge Hill) Prentice, Rt. Hn. Reg.
Cohen, Stanley Janner, Greville Prescott, John
Conlan, Bernard Jay, Rt. Hn. Douglas Price, J. T. (Westhoughton)
Corbet, Mrs. Freda Jeger, Mrs. Lena (H'b'n&St. P'cras, S.) Probert, Arthur
Cox, Thomas (Wandsworth, C.) Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) Reed, D. (Sedgefield)
Crawshaw, Richard Jenkins, Rt. Hn. Roy (Stechford) Rees, Merlyn (Leeds, S.)
Cronin, John John, Brynmor Rhodes, Geoffrey
Cunningham, G. (Islington, S. W.) Johnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.) Richard, Ivor
Dalyell, Tam Johnson, James (K'ston-on-Hull, W.) Roberts, Albert (Normanton)
Darling, Rt. Hn. George Johnson, Walter (Derby, S.) Roberts, Rt. Hn. Goronwy (Caernarvon)
Davidson, Arthur Jones, Barry (Flint, E.) Robertson, John (Paisley)
Davies, Denzil (Llanelly) Jones, Dan (Burnley) Rodgers, William (Stockton-on-Tees)
Davies, C. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) Jones, Rt. Hn. Sir Elwyn (W. Ham, S.) Roper, John
Davies, Ifor (Gower) Jones, Gwynoro (Carmarthen) Rose, Paul B.
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr Tydvil) Jones, T. Alec (Rhondda, W.) Sandelson, Neville
Davis, Clinton (Hackney, C.) Judd, Frank Sheldon, Robert (Ashton-under-Lyne)
Davis, T. A. G. (Bromsgrove) Kaufman, Gerald Short, Mrs. Renée (W'hampton, N. E.)
de Freitas, Rt. Hn. Sir Geoffrey Kelley, Richard Silkin, Hn. S. C. (Dulwich)
Delargy, H. J. Kinnock, Neil Silverman, Julius
Dell, Rt. Hn. Edmund Lambie, David Skinner, Dennis
Doig, Peter Latham, Arthur Small, William
Douglas, Dick (Stirlingshire, E.) Lawson, George Smith, John (Lanarkshire, N.)
Douglas-Mann, Bruce Leadbitter, Ted Spearing, Nigel
Driberg, Tom Lee, Rt. Hn. Frederick Spriggs, Leslie
Duffy, A. E. P. Leonard, Dick Stallard, A. W.
Dunnett, Jack Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) Stewart, Rt. Hn. Michael (Fulham)
Eadie, Alex Lipton, Marcus Stoddart, David (Swindon)
Edelman, Maurice Loughlin, Charles Stonehouse, Rt. Hn. John
Edwards, Robert (Bilston) Lyon, Alexander W. (York) Strang, Gavin
Edwards, William (Merioneth) Lyons, Edward (Bradford, E.) Summershill, Hn. Dr. Shirley
Ellis, Tom Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson Thomas, Rt. Hn. George (Cardiff, W.)
English, Michael McBride, Neil Thomas, Jeffrey (Abertillery)
Evans, Fred McGuire, Michael Thomson, Rt. Hn. G. (Dundee, E.)
Faulds, Andrew Mackenzie, Gregor Tinn, James
Fernyhough, Rt. Hn. E. Mackie, John Tomney, Frank
Fisher, Mrs. Doris (B'ham, Ladywood) Maclennan, Robert Torney, Tom
Fitch, Alan (Wigan) McMillan, Tom (Glasgow, C.) Tuck, Raphael
Fitt, Gerard (Belfast, W.) McNamara, J. Kevin Urwin, T. W.
Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfield, E.) Varley, Eric G.
Foley, Maurice Marks, Kenneth Wainwright, Edwin
Foot, Michael Marquand, David Walker, Harold (Doncaster)
Ford, Ben Marsden, F. Wallace, George
Forrester, John Marshall, Dr. Edmund Watkins, David
Fraser, John (Norwood) Mason, Rt. Hn. Roy Weitzman, David
Freeson, Reginald Meacher, Michael Whitehead, Phillip
Galpern, Sir Myer Mellish, Rt. Hn. Robert Willey, Rt. Hn. Frederick
Garrett, W. E. Mendelson, John Williams, Alan (Swansea, W.)
Gilbert, Dr. John Millan, Bruce Williams, Mrs. Shirley (Hitchin)
Golding, John Miller, Dr. M. S. Wilson, Alexander (Hamilton)
Gordon Walker, Rt. Hn. P. C. Milne, Edward (Blyth) Wilson, William (Coventry, S.)
Gourlay, Harry Mitchell, R. C. (S'hampton, Itchen) Woof, Robert
Grant, George (Morpeth) Molloy, William
Grant, John D. (Islington, E.) Morgan, Elystan (Cardiganshire) TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Griffiths, Eddie (Brightside) Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) Mr. Donald Coleman and
Hamilton, James (Bothwell) Morris, Rt. Hn. John (Aberavon) Mr. Ernest Armstrong.
Adley, Robert Barber, Rt Hn. Anthony Boardman, Tom (Leicester, S. W.)
Alison, Michael (Barkston Ash) Batsford, Brian Body, Richard
Allason, James (Heme) Hempstead) Beamish, Col. Sir Tufton Boscawen, Robert
Archer, Jeffrey (Louth) Bennett, Sir Frederic (Torquay) Bossom, Sir Clive
Atkins, Humphrey Benyon, W. Bowden, Andrew
Awdry, Daniel Berry, Hn. Anthony Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hn. John
Baker, Kenneth (St. Marylebone) Biffen, John Braine, Bernard
Baker, W. H. K. (Banff) Biggs-Davison, John Bray, Ronald
Balniel, Lord Blaker, Peter Brewis, John
Brinton, Sir Tatton Hawkins, Paul Peel, John
Brocklebank-Fowler, Christopher Hay, John Percival, Ian
Brown, Sir Edward (Bath) Hayhoe, Barney Pink, R. Bonner
Bruce-Gardyne, J. Hicks, Robert Pounder, Rafton
Bryan, Paul Higgins, Terence L. Powell, Rt. Hn. J. Enoch
Buchanan-Smith, Alick (Angus, N&M) Hiley, Joseph Prior, Rt. Hn. J. M. L
Buck, Antony Hill, John E. B. (Norfolk, S.) Pym, Rt Hn. Francis
Bullus, Sir Eric Hill, James (Southampton, Test) Raison, Timothy
Burden, F. A. Holt, Miss Mary Rawlinson, Rt. Hn. Sir Peter
Butler, Adam (Bosworth) Hordern, Peter Redmond, Robert
Carlisle, Mark Hornby, Richard Reed, Laurance (Bolton, E.)
Carr, Rt. Hn. Robert Hornsby Smith, Rt. Hn. Dame Patricia Rees, Peter (Dover)
Channon, Paul Howe, Hn. Sir Geoffrey (Reigate) Rees-Davies, W. R.
Chapman, Sydney Howell, David (Guildford) Renton, Rt. Hn. Sir David
Chichester-Clark, R. Howell, Ralph (Norfolk, N.) Rhys Williams, Sir Brandon
Churchill, W. S. Hunt, John Ridley, Hn. Nicholas
Clark, William (Surrey, E.) Hutchison, Michael Clark Ridsdale, Julian
Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe) Iremonger, T. L. Roberts, Wyn (Conway)
Clegg, Walter James, David Rodgers, Sir John (Sevenoaks)
Cockeram, Eric Jessel, Toby Rossi, Hugh (Hornsey)
Coombs, Derek Johnson Smith, C. (E. Grinstead) Rost, Peter
Corfield, Rt. Hn. Frederick Jopling, Michael Russell, Sir Ronald
Cormack, Patrick Kaberry, Sir Donald Scott, Nicholas
Costain, A. P. Kellett-Bowman, Mrs. Elaine Scott-Hopkins, James
Critchley, Julian Kilfedder, James Sharples, Richard
Crouch, David King, Evelyn (Dorset, S.) Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & Whitby)
Curran, Charles Kinsey, J. R. Shelton, William (Clapham)
Davies, Rt. Hn. John (Knutsford) Kirk, Peter Simeons, Charles
d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry Knox, David Sinclair, Sir George
d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Maj.-Gen.James Lambton, Antony Skeet, T. H. H.
Dean, Paul Lane, David Smith, Dudley (W'wick & L'mington)
Deedes, Rt. Hn. W. F. Langford-Holt, Sir John Soref, Harold
Dixon, Piers Legge-Bourke, Sir Harry Speed, Keith
Dodds-Parker, Douglas Le Marchant, Spencer Spence, John
Douglas-Home, Rt. Hn. Sir Alec Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) Sproat, Iain
Drayson, G. B. Longden, Gilbert Stanbrook, Ivor
du Cann, Rt. Hn. Edward Loveridge, John Stewart-Smith, D. G. (Beiper)
Dykes, Hugh Luce, R. N. Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir M.
Eden, Sir John McAdden, Sir Stephen Stokes, John
Edwards, Nicholas (Pembroke) MacArthur, Ian Stuttaford, Dr. Tom
Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshalton) McCrindle, R. A. Sutcliffe, John
Emery, Peter McLaren, Martin Tapsell, Peter
Eyre, Reginald Maclean, Sir Fitzroy Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne)
Farr, John McMaster, Stanley Taylor, Edward M. (G'gow, Cathcart)
Fell, Anthony Macmillan, Maurice (Farnham) Taylor, Frank (Moss Side)
Fenner, Mrs. Peggy McNair-Wilson, Michael Taylor, Robert (Croydon, N. W.)
Fidler, Michael McNair-Wilson, Patrick (NewForest) Tebbit, Norman
Finsberg, Geoffrey (Hampstead) Maddan, Martin Temple, John M.
Fisher, Nigel (Surbiton) Madel, David Thatcher, Rt. Hn. Mrs. Margaret
Fookes, Miss Janet Marten, Neil Thomas, John Stradling (Monmouth)
Foster, Sir John Mather, Carol Thompson, Sir Richard (Croydon, S.)
Fowler, Norman Maude, Angus Thorpe, Rt. Hn. Jeremy
Fox, Marcus Mawby, Ray Tilney, John
Fraser, Rt. Hn. Hugh (St'fford & Stone) Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. Trafford, Dr. Anthony
Fry, Peter Meyer, Sir Anthony Trew, Peter
Galbraith, Hn. T. G. Mills, Peter (Torrington) Tugendhat, Christopher
Gardner, Edward Mitchell, Lt.-Col. C. (Aberdeenshire, W) Turton, Rt. Hn. Sir Robin
Gibson-Watt, David Mitchell, David (Basingstoke) van Straubenzee, W. R.
Gilmour, Ian (Norfolk, c.) Moate, Roger Vaughan, Dr. Gerard
Gilmour, Sir John (Fife, E.) Molyneaux, James Vickers, Dame Joan
Godber, Rt. Hn. J. B. Money, Ernle Waddington, David
Goodhart, Philip Monks, Mrs. Connie Walder, David (Clitheroe)
Coodhew, Victor Monro, Hector Walker, Rt. Hn. Peter (Worcester)
Gorst, John Montgomery, Fergus Walker-Smith, Rt. Hn. Sir Derek
Gower, Raymond More, Jasper Wall, Patrick
Grant, Anthony (Harrow, C.) Morgan-Giles, Rear-Adm. Walters, Dennis
Gray, Hamish Morrison, Charles (Devizes) Ward, Dame Irene
Green, Alan Mudd, David Wells, John (Maidstone)
Grieve, Percy Murton, Oscar White, Roger (Gravesend)
Grimond, Rt. Hn. J. Neave, Airey Whitelaw, Rt. Hn. William
Grylls, Michael Noble, Rt. Hn. Michael Wiggin, Jerry
Gummer, Selwyn Normanton, Tom Wilkinson, John
Gurden, Harold Nott, John Wolrige-Gordon, Patrick
Hall, Miss Joan (Keighley) Onslow, Cranley Wood, Rt. Hn. Richard
Hall, John (Wycombe) Oppenheim, Mrs. Sally Woodhouse, Hn. Christopher
Hall-Davis, A. G. F. Orr, Capt. L. P. S. Woodnutt, Mark
Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) Osborn, John Worsley, Marcus
Hannam, John (Exeter) Owen, Idris (Stockport, N.) Wylie, Rt. Hn. N. R.
Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye) Page, Graham (Crosby)
Haselhurst, Alan Page, John (Harrow, W.) TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Hastings, Stephen Parkinson, Cecil (Enfield, W.) Mr. Bernard Weatherill and
Havers, Michael Mr. Tim Fortescue.

Lords Amendment agreed to.

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