HC Deb 28 October 1970 vol 805 cc203-5
16. Mr. Heffer

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is his policy towards the Passenger Transport Authority on Merseyside; whether he intends to assist the Passenger Transport Authority by financial grants; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Michael Heseltine

It has already been announced that all four Passenger Transport Authorities are to remain in being. Discussions are taking place with Merseyside P.T.A. as to the possible solutions to their problems.

Mr. Heffer

While half welcoming that statement, may I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he agrees that the question of public transport in areas like Merseyside cannot be solved on the basis of Tory philosophy, that it is absolutely essential that public transport is regarded as a public social service, and that we cannot continue to put burdens of increased cost on the users of public transport? Will the hon. Gentleman assure us that some financial aid will be given to the P.T.A. to overcome the difficult problems arising from the deficit that it inherited?

Mr. Heseltine

The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the attempt to solve the passenger transport problem of Liverpool was the introduction of the Passenger Transport Authority, which is hardly a Conservative philosophy. I cannot hold out any hope to the hon. Gentleman that there will be any grant coming from the Government, although we are having discussions with Liverpool as to what can be done about its problems.

Mr. Tilney

Do not the bulk of the difficulties of the Merseyside P.T.A. stem from the Transport Act, 1968, passed under the last Administration, and the subsequent regulations under Statutory Instrument restricting the hours of work of drivers, to their financial detriment? Indeed, conductors now earn more than drivers.

Mr. Heseltine

Certainly. The bus industry has made strong representations to my right hon. Friend about the effect of the reduction in drivers' hours and conditions on the services that they are able to supply. My hon. Friend is right that the Passenger Transport Authorities, introduced by the last Government, were supposed to be able to cope with the problems, and obviously they are finding difficulties greater than they anticipated.

Mr. Mulley

Will the hon. Gentleman make clear his reference to drivers' hours? Is it the Government's intention to go back to the old hours which means that a driver has to work more than 132 hours a fortnight to earn a living wage?

Mr. Heseltine

The right hon. Gentleman modified the drivers' hours provisions when he had the opportunity to do so. We have looked at the representations that have been made and are considering what further modifications are possible, just as the right hon. Gentleman did.