HC Deb 04 March 1970 vol 797 cc401-4
25. Mr. McNamara

asked the Secretary of State for Defence how many "B" Specials are still on active service; how many have now been disarmed and how many are still armed; and how far plans for the disbanding of the "B" Specials have progressed.

45. Mr. Stratton Mills

asked the Secretary of State for Defence on what date the Ulster Defence Regiment will become operational as an effective unit.

Mr. Hattersley

At 31st January there were 8,026 members of the Ulster Special Constabulary, of whom 6,789 held personal arms at home. The Ulster Defence Regiment whose task is to support the regular forces in Northern Ireland, should circumstances so require, will undertake operational duties from 1st April. The Ulster Special Constabulary will run down during that month and be finally stood down by 30th April. If during the month of April while the Ulster Defence Regiment strength is still growing, the G.O.C. as Director of Operations judges that further forces are needed, he will be able to call upon members of the Ulster Special Constabulary who have not been enlisted in the Ulster Defence Regiment to undertake operational duties, if necessary and if they are available.

Mr. McNamara

Is my hon. Friend aware that his reply today is far more satisfactory than the reply that he gave to me in a Written Answer on Monday and that many hon. Members on this side welcome his announcement that the end of April will be the final date for the disbandment of the "B" Specials?

Is my hon. Friend also aware that we are still alarmed that in that period over 6,000 will still have personal arms at home?

Mr. Hattersley

One advantage of transferring the responsibilities for assisting the Army from the U.S.C. to the U.D.R. is that the proportion of arms held at home will be drastically reduced. When it is the responsibility of the U.D.R. the ratio of arms held at home will be reduced to about one in eight.

Mr. Mills

Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that the General Officer Commanding Northern Ireland has found in this interim period the "B" Specials to be most useful and valuable in the guarding of key installations?

Mr. Hattersley

He has found them to be both those things, and has found their presence necessary during the last few months. I have said this many times before in the House and I am happy to say it again. But that does not invalidate the advantages of transferring their responsibilities to the Ulster Defence Regiment.

26. Mr. McNamara

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make a statement on the present rate of recruiting for the Ulster Defence Regiment.

Mr. Hattersley

As at 27th February 3,525 applications to enrol in the Ulster Defence Regiment had been received. 119 applicants had actually been enrolled, and a further 1,185 had been accepted for enrolment. 27 applicants have withdrawn since 1st January, 1970.

Mr. McNamara

I thank my hon. Friend for that factual reply. Can he assure the House that the U.D.R. will be able to take an effective rôle at the end of April, as his last reply indicated? Will he say how many "B" Specials have enrolled or applied for the U.D.R., particularly from the Border counties where there are some "B" Special hardliners of whom we are suspicious? Is my hon. Friend certain that the U.D.R. will be able to help the Regular Army forces in combating the present explosive campaign in Belfast? Many people are concerned that had it been the I.R.A. more active steps would have been taken.

Mr. Hattersley

I have no doubt about the policy of the G.O.C. arid the Army, supported by the U.D.R. or, between now and 1st April, by the U.S.C., to maintain the present levels of law and order and security in Northern Ireland.

As to the proportion of U.S.C. members who have applied for enrolment in the U.D.R., the figure stands now at about 55 per cent. of the total. That is a much smaller figure than the House was led to believe, not by my hon. Friend who asked the question but by some of my hon. Friends who sit with him.

Mr. Stratton Mills

Will the Minister tell us whether it is possible to increase the speed of security vetting?

Mr. Hattersley

Security vetting is done in as short a period as possible consistent with its being done properly. Whilst I am anxious to get as many potential recruits as possible enlisted at the earliest date, I do not think that I could agree to speed up the security vetting because, were that the case, our security obligations would not be fulfilled.

Miss Devlin

Does the Minister agree that, although the average figure for applicants is 54 per cent. "B" Specials, in the counties of Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh the figure is between 70 and 75 per cent., which is balanced by only 4 per cent. in the county surrounding the Belfast area? Does he accept that this s not a well balanced force, and will he stand by his promise to the House that until it was a well balanced force it would not be used in Northern Ireland?

Mr. Hattersley

I do not know whether the hon. Lady is following the logical conclusion of that position and asking me to maintain the "B" Specials in being for a further week, month, or longer period. That policy would not, in my view, be in the best interests of Northern Ireland. I undertake to take whatever initiatives are possible through the Advisory Committee and in other ways to try to improve the balance in those counties where it is not as good as in the force as a whole.

Sir Knox Cunningham

Has the Minister's attention been drawn to two persons who have been accepted for the new Ulster Defence Regiment who are not "B" Specials and who, when asked on television whether they would fight if the South invaded the North, said that they would have to think about it? Does the hon. Gentleman think that this makes for a good Ulster Defence Regiment?

Mr. Hattersley

I understand that my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Defence for the Army has received a letter from the hon. Gentleman about this problem and is looking into it in some detail. As I understand the transcript of the programme—I am open to correction—one man was asked if he would fight under those circumstances, and he said that it was a very difficult question. I think that we would all agree with that judgment.