§ 19. Mr. Kaufmanasked the Secretary of State for the Environment what plans he has for renewing the provisions of the Rents (Control of Increases) Act beyond 1971.
§ Mr. AmeryNone, Sir, but I shall be discussing with the local authority associations the limit on council rent increases arising from our proposals for the reform of housing finance.
§ Mr. KaufmanDoes not the right hon. Gentleman realise that that is a totally deplorable answer? Does he not realise that, following the vague threats arising from the Secretary of State's policy, which will inevitably mean large rises in rents, for both private and council tenants, particularly in my constituency, this latest announcement, which he has made with such complacency, means that the only safeguard for tenants in the grading of, and ceilings on, rents, which the Labour 1333 Government brought in and which, of course, his own party delightedly voted against, will now be removed?
§ Mr. AmeryThe hon. Member is making something of a mountain out of a molehill. Our proposals specifically provide that tenants who are in need will get rebates or allowances to cover their need.
§ Mr. CroslandIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that no one is making a mountain out of a molehill on this, and that his right hon. Friend's statement on 3rd November was of the most profound importance, since it will affect the housing conditions of hundreds of thousands of people? He has told us that he is starting his discussions next week. Can he tell us, as this is a matter of the greatest urgency, when he will have concluded those and when he hopes to make a further statement to the House?
§ Mr. AmeryI am glad that the right hon. Gentleman recognises the importance of our proposals. I cannot say exactly when the conversations will end. After all, this is a two-way traffic. When we embarked upon them, we do not set a definite limit to them; we want to hear the advice which will be given to us by the borough associations, and this may last some weeks or some months. I cannot say yet, but, of course, I will report to the House as soon as I can do so.
§ Mr. LongdenIs my right hon. Friend aware that among the other results of this Act has been an enormous increase in the number of slums, simply because the landlords, the owners, cannot afford to keep their property in repair?
§ Mr. AmeryI think that our reforms will enable authorities which are burdened with slums or serious overcrowding to have greater resources to deal with those problems.
§ Mr. CroslandI must press the Minister on this. When his right hon. Friend made his statement on 3rd November, which I agree reflected Tory policy, he must have known what he was doing and have had some idea of the details in his mind. Is it really conceivable that the Minister now has no idea whether those discussions with the local authorities will 1334 take two weeks or six months? If so, he should learn something about his job.
§ Mr. AmeryLooking back at the housing record of the last Administration, I am not sure that the right hon. Gentleman or any of his colleagues learned anything in six years. They seem to have learned nothing and to have forgotten nothing. Of course it would be quite wrong to say when conversations will end. When one starts a dialogue with other people, one does not set a time limit to it: one listens to their arguments and thrashes them out.
§ Mr. KaufmanOn a point of order, Mr. Speaker. As one who, unlike the hon. Member for Hertfordshire, South-West (Mr. Longden), represents many people who have—
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. If the hon. Gentleman wants to give notice, he should do it briefly and in the conventional way.
§ Mr. KaufmanWell, in deference to you, Mr. Speaker, briefly and in the conventional way—
§ Mr. SpeakerIn the conventional way: Mr. Kaufman.
§ Mr. KaufmanI beg to give notice that, in view of the totally unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment as early as possible.