CONSUMPTION OF LIQUOR (CRIMES OF VIOLENCE) (Hansard, 30 April 1970)

§ Q3. Mr. WILLIAM HAMILTON
To ask the Prime Minister if he will propose the establishment of a Royal Commission to inquire into the relationship between the increased consumption of alcoholic liquor and the increased incidence of crimes of violence.

§ Mr. William Hamilton
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. You will no doubt recall the recommendations of the Select Committee on Procedure on Questions to the Prime Minister. Quite clearly, the spirit of the recommendations is being flouted in that we have had only two Questions to my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister answered in a quarter of an hour. I feel fairly strongly about this, particularly as the Question No. Q3 seeks to relate the drink trade with the Tory Party and crimes of violence, and more particularly since the drink trade gave the Tory Party £98,000 last year instead of spending it on research into the links between crimes of violence and the drink trade.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. On the first part of what the hon. Gentleman said, he is quite right. It is an embarrassment, especially for someone as high up the list as No. 03, not to have his Question reached on Prime Minister's day. It is similarly an embarrassment for anyone as high up as No. 30 not to be reached on an ordinary day. I have appealed from time to time for brief questions and brief answers.
The rest of the hon. Gentleman's point seemed to me to be political.

§ The Prime Minister
Further to that point of order. Mr. Speaker. In view of the large number of supplementary questions which it seemed right for you to call on Northern Ireland and housing, and the length of some of the supplementaries, and, therefore, of the answers, and of the very wide interest obviously shown by the whole House in the point of order raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Fife, West (Mr. William Hamilton), if it is the wish of the House I would be glad to ask your permission to answer my hon. Friend's Question.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The Prime Minister has not yet sought my permission.

§ Sir D. Glover
On a point of order. I understand, Mr. Speaker, that under the rules of the House the Prime Minister is allotted 15 minutes in which to answer Questions addressed to him and that you cannot intervene however long the supplementary questions and answers may 1456 be. My submission, however, is to ask you if you think that the Prime Minister should be allowed to bore the House for about 22 minutes rather than the 15 minutes allotted to him?

§ Mr. Speaker
That is not a point of order, but a point of criticism.

§ Mr. William Hamilton
On a point of order. I understand that the Prime Minister has expressed his willingness to answer Question No. Q3, which is addressed to him. As my right hon. Friend is prepared to give his time—indeed, is prepared to work overtime—surely the House should allow him to do so?

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. I did not refuse the Prime Minister permission. If he asks for it he will get it, but he has not asked.

§ The Prime Minister
In these circumstances, and in view of the wide interest being shown by hon. Members in Question No. Q3, and of the suspicion that the length of some of the supplementary questions and answers has prevented this Question from being reached, may I have your permission to answer it now, Mr. Speaker?

Hon. Members
No.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. If a Minister asks for permission to answer a particular Question which has not been reached, it is for the Chair to decide whether to give permission.

§ Mr. Marten
Further to the point of order raised by the hon. Member for Fife, West (Mr. William Hamilton), is it in order for me to ask the Prime Minister whether he will—that is, if he intends to answer Question No. Q3—answer Question No. Q25? I had intended to raise in connection with that Question the very important matter of the Walter Terry report in the Daily Mail about the Government's intention to send an expedition up the Gulf of Aquaba before the Suez trouble broke out. It follows, does it not, that if the right hon. Gentleman will answer Question No. Q3, he should seek permission to answer Question No. Q5 as well?

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. It is in order for the hon. Gentleman to ask that, but it is for the Prime Minister to ask for permission to reply, if he decides so to do.

§ Mr. Peyton
On a point of order. If the Prime Minister is to be allowed at this stage to seek permission to answer Question No. Q3, then surely he should be encouraged to answer two other Questions, since two unfortunate people, General Gowon and President Nasser, are under serious threat in those Questions of the awful possibility of a face-to-face meeting with the Prime Minister. Is it not your solemn duty, Mr. Speaker, to put these unhappy gentlemen out of their misery?

§ Mr. Speaker
One at a time, please. No doubt the Prime Minister has heard the serious plea which the hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr. Peyton) has made.

§ Mr. Blaker
May I raise with you, Mr. Speaker, a point of order which I have been seeking to raise for some time? The Prime Minister has claimed that it was because of the length of supplementary questions—

§ The Prime Minister
And answers.

§ Mr. Blaker
I do not recall the right hon. Gentleman mentioning the length of his own answers. [HON. MEMBERS: " He did."] Be that as it may, it is not really material.
In view of the right hon. Gentleman's claim that the length of supplementary questions is largely to blame for the situation in which we find ourselves, may I suggest that what the House requires is an impartial examination, which perhaps the Leader of the House could set under way, into the respective lengths of the average replies given by the Prime Minister and the average supplementary questions?

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. That is a piece of research in which any hon. Member could indulge.

§ Dame Irene Ward
On a point of order. May I ask you respectfully to consider, Mr. Speaker, the possibility of a precedent being created if the Prime 1458 Minister is permitted to answer Question No. Q3? [Interruption.] I have not asked him to ask permission to answer it. I have been in the House of Commons for many years and if my memory serves me correctly I have never heard a Front Bench spokesman answering a Question immediately when asked to answer it. It has always been the case that he has been asked some time beforehand to answer it.

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. Lady is a distinguished parliamentarian, but her recollection is not quite the same as mine.

§ Mr. Kenneth Lewis
On a point of order. While the Prime Minister may be very good at arranging extra time for himself on " Sports Report ", may I ask you if we are justified in arranging to give him extra time in the House in view of the unsatisfactory nature of the replies which he gives to Questions, anyway?

§ Mr. Speaker
That is not a point of order.

§ Mr. Speaker
Not more points of order. I remind the House that we have a lot of work ahead of us. A multiplicity of points of order do not help us to get through that work.

§ Mr. Rose
On a point of order. Would you now rule unequivocally, Mr. Speaker, on this matter so that it is beyond doubt that what the House wants is Wilson's and not Watney's?

§ Sir C. Taylor
On a point of order. It is my recollection, Mr. Speaker, that it has always been the custom, if a Minister wants to answer a particular Question which has not been reached, for him to say, " With your permission, Mr. Speaker, and that of the House, I should like to answer Question No.…" whatever the Question might be. You may have given permission to the Prime Minister to answer Question No. 03, but I am not sure that the House has.

§ Mr. Speaker
The hon. Gentleman has a long career in the House and yesterday celebrated his 36th year in Parliament. However, it has been ruled time and again by the Chair that the expression " With your permission, Mr. Speaker, and that of the House ", is just a courteous convention.

§ The Prime Minister rose
—

§ Mr. Fisher
On a point of order. As the Prime Minister's Questions have now taken more than double the time that they are supposed to take, and as we have Business questions to follow, do you consider it a desirable precedent to set, Mr. Speaker, that in response to a request made by one of his hon. Friends on purely political grounds Prime Minister's Question time should be further extended in this way?

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. About half of that time has been taken up with points of order.

§ Mr. Birch
On a point of order. Would you be kind enough, Mr. Speaker, to help the House by advising the Prime Minister to take something for his verbal incontinence?

§ Mr. Speaker
That is not a point of order.

§ The Prime Minister
With your permission, Mr. Speaker, I will now answer Question No. Q3, as follows:

§ Mr. William Hamilton
Is my right hon. Friend aware that this Question was put down with a very serious intention, as there is a link between the consumption of alcoholic liquor and crimes of violence and there seems to be an insufficient amount of research done to establish the relationship between them? Could he not appeal to the brewers to make a contribution to this field of research rather than to the Conservative Party because, if £98,000 spent by them in 1968 had been spent on research into this matter, that would have shown much greater sense of responsibility than has been shown hitherto?

§ The Prime Minister
I think that it is generally felt, and that there is some evidence for the view, that alchohol has been responsible for a significant proportion of crime and of the increase of crime in this country. But there is not any very conclusive evidence, certainly not conclusive statistical evidence. A report 1460 from other countries suggests that there is some connection. That is why we have set in hand these inquiries. Anyone feeling able to contribute to the cost of such inquiries, be they brewers or anyone else, should feel that they are making a helpful contribution.

§ Mr. Blaker
Is the Prime Minister aware that there is in my part of the country a beer called " Wilson's Bitter " and that we have known it for some time?