§ 1. Mr. Wallasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the progress of the United Kingdom's negotiations to join the European Economic Community.
§ 6. Mr. Martenasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on the present position over Great Britain's application to join the Common Market.
§ 14. Mr. Biggs-Davisonasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he now expects to open negotiations with the European Economic Community; and whether he will make a statement.
§ The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr. Michael Stewart)As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made clear at Brighton, our application remains and, if the Six are ready for negotiations to begin, so are we. We are encouraged by the conclusion reached in the Commission's new Opinion that negotiations should be opened as soon as possible, and we hope that the Six will now reach agreement on an early date.
§ Mr. WallI welcome the right hon. Gentleman's reply, but may I ask whether, before the negotiations start, he will publish a White Paper giving the long- and short-term advantages and disadvantages to Britain of joining the E.E.C.?
§ Mr. StewartMy right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has said that all information will be given to the House as soon as it is available.
§ Mr. MartenIn view of the statement by the Dutch Foreign Minister, Dr. Luns, that the Dutch Government would not support Britain's application without a firm commitment to the federal structure, and in view of the statement by the Prime 4 Minister that he would not countenance such a federal structure, how do the Government propose to resolve this dilemma?
§ Mr. StewartI do not think that the hon. Gentleman is correctly representing the Dutch Foreign Minister; indeed, I am sure that he is not. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister answered this matter very clearly on 8th July.
§ Mr. Biggs-DavisonDo the Government now accept that Franco-British understanding is fundamental to the question of any satisfactory European arrangement? Will they take every opportunity of discussing with M. Schumann and other French leaders differences on matters of defence, foreign policy, non-proliferation, and so on?
§ Mr. StewartI had the opportunity of discussions with M. Schumann when I was in New York recently. The question of our entry is not a question for one member of the Six alone. It is a question for all Six, and for us.
§ Mr. ShinwellIs it intended to furnish information giving us all the facts before the negotiations, or after the negotiations? Is it not important to ascertain what the Government have in mind?
§ Mr. StewartI am sure that I can reassure my right hon. Friend about that. The information will be given as soon as it is available.
§ Sir D. Walker-SmithAs the effect of the right hon. Gentleman's answer to Question No. 1 appears to be that no progress has been made, does not he think that it would be a very good thing to leave this satisfactory situation where it is? In view of the present state of the Community, does not he think that he is in considerable danger of swimming to the sinking ship, and will he be careful not to meet percipient Europeans head on swimming in the opposite direction?
§ Mr. StewartI am not going to follow all the metaphors there. When the right hon. and learned Gentleman refers to the Community as a sinking ship, he is only disclosing his own insularity. As to no progress having been made, I think we must notice both the Commission's new Opinion, to which I referred in my Answer, and the statement by M. Schumann that enlargement of the Community was eminently desirable.
§ Mr. John LeeCan we be assured that, in spite of his enthusiasm for getting into this organisation, my right hon. Friend will not be inhibited from telling certain European countries just how inefficient their agriculture is, and that under no circumstances will we accept their system of payment?
§ Mr. StewartI think we have made plain our view that we have to come to terms with the common agricultural policy, but decisions have still to be made by the Six as to the nature and working of that policy.
§ 18. Mr. Turtonasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether, in view of the decisions taken at the meeting of the European Economic Community Governments in September, he will now give a revised estimate of the costs of entry into the Common Market.
§ 29. Mr. Arthur Lewisasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he is now able to give some estimate of the total cost involved to Great Britain in entering the Common Market; and whether lie will publish in HANSARD a table of figures giving the information which is now readily available of the costs to our balance of payments, comparative costs in the retail prices of food, clothing, etc., and a comparison of rates, charges, cost of living and wages between Great Britain and the six countries of the European Economic Community.
§ Mr. M. StewartAs my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said in answer to Questions on 8th July, all available information will in due course be given to the House. This is still the case and, as my right hon. Friend has recently made clear, new calculations are being undertaken of the estimates and assessments made two and a half years ago. When they are ready they will be made available to Parliament. I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT figures showing the annual rate of increase over the period 1960 to 1968 in hourly earnings and consumer prices in the United Kingdom and in the E.E.C. countries.
§ Mr. TurtonDoes that answer mean that the Government have not yet done their sums? If they have not, had not they better do them now and realise 6 that the agricultural fund is costing a great deal more now than it did in 1967?
§ Mr. StewartWhen the right hon. Gentleman uses a phrase like "doing their sums", that shows that he has failed to grasp the complications of this matter. Any calculations must be based on a series of different assumptions, both as to the future policy of the Community itself, movement of world prices and many other matters. As soon as these calculations are complete, they will be made available to the House.
§ Mr. LewisSurely the Minister must have some information. He has given a little more this afternoon. Can he not publish all the information which is now readily available and not just a few figures such as those which he mentioned? He has a lot of information. Can he not publish that, even if he has to correct it with his later figures?
§ Mr. StewartThere are two distinct points here. There are estimates as to the costs involved for this country in entry, which are governed by the answer which I have given. There is the kind of information for which my hon. Friend asked, much of which is already publicly available. My hon. Friend will find that what I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT about movements of prices and hourly earnings in this country and the Community is extremely interesting.
§ Mr. DoughtyWill the right hon. Gentleman please say what "in due course" means? As one of those who voted in favour of entering the E.E.C., may I ask that the figures which he is to supply should include the additional cost, first, if no alteration is made in the Treaty of Rome, and, second, if alterations are made in accordance with the undertakings given in the House when we debated this matter last Easter? The two figures are quite different.
§ Mr. StewartI have already said that any estimates must be a statement of what would happen on a series of different assumptions.
§ Mr. RoebuckCan we get this right? Is the Secretary of State saying that, since we were told that we should enter the Common Market "with pace and momentum", the Foreign Office has not kept week by week a record of the 7 changes in these vital matters? If that is not so, and they have not been as incompetent as that, is it not disgraceful that these facts and figures should be kept from the House?
§ Mr. StewartI do not think that my hon. Friend has begun to understand the matter. There are, first of all, the figures about wages, earnings and the other matters to which my hon. Friend the Member for West Ham, North (Mr. Arthur Lewis) referred. Those are partly to be circulated in the OFFICIAL REPORT, and much of that information is already available to everyone anyhow. As to the other matter, that depends on a very complicated process of calculation, on which we are engaged, and the results will be laid before the House as soon as possible.
§ Following are the figures:
| ANNUAL RATE OF INCREASE IN HOURLY EARNINGS AND CONSUMER PRICES PERIOD 1960 TO 1968 | ||
| Hourly Earnings | Consumer Prices | |
| Per cent. | Per cent. | |
| United Kingdom | 6.2 | 3.6 |
| West Germany | 7.8 | 2.6 |
| France | 7.6 | 3.6 |
| Italy | 8.2 | 3.8 |
| Netherlands | 9.5 | 3.6 |
| Belgium* | 7.2 | 2.5 |
| Luxembourg† | 6.3 | 2.1 |
| * Based on 1959 to 1967. | ||
| † Based on 1959 to 1966. |
§ 21. Mr. Shinwellasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what has been the total expenditure incurred by the Foreign Office since 1960 in seeking entry into the European Economic Community.
§ Mr. M. StewartIt is not feasible to make such a calculation.
§ Mr. ShinwellIs not this deception? Surely the general public, who are expected to pay taxation, are entitled to information about Government expenditure? What possible reason have the Government for refusing to furnish details of this expenditure? Why should the Foreign Office get away with this deception, and why should my right hon. Friend be a party to it?
§ Mr. StewartIt would be quite impossible to distinguish the cost of seeking entry into the European Economic 8 Community from the cost of maintaining normal relations with all the countries of that Community. My right hon. Friend has had widespread Ministerial experience. He must be perfectly well aware that one could not sort out and docket the exact expense of the performance of each particular function in that manner.
§ Mr. LaneWill the right hon. Gentleman confirm that the fresh assessment on which the Foreign Office is now working will make clear the probable cost of staying out as well as going in? Is he aware that many of us are hopeful that this expenditure will soon prove justified by successful negotiation for British membership on acceptable terms?
§ Mr. StewartI am certain that anyone attempting to judge the matter must examine the results of staying out as well as of going in.
§ 30. Mr. Arthur Lewisasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he is aware that fines totalling £208,000 have been imposed by the Common Market Commission on chemical companies, including one with British connections, for increasing prices by joint decisions in contravention of Article 85 of the Treaty of Rome; and how enforcement of this regulation will affect British firms in general on Great Britain's acceptance of this Treaty and entry into the Common Market.
§ Mr. M. StewartI am aware of the fines imposed on chemical companies by the Commission of the European Communities. I have also been informed that the British company to which my hon. Friend refers has lodged an appeal. I do not think it would be appropriate for me to make a statement at this time.
§ Mr. LewisWhen the Foreign Secretary publishes all the information that has been promised, will he explain to British manufacturers that while we in this Parliament have no power to fine them, we will be giving authority to an external body sitting in Brussels to take such action? Will he see that this fact is made fully known to British manufacturers and that they are made aware that they are liable to fines under the Treaty which we accept?
§ Mr. StewartThe provisions of Article 85 of the Treaty of Rome are founded 9 on principles similar to those to be found in our own legislation on restrictive practices. When we become a member of the Communities—[HON. MEMBERS: "If."]—we should accept these provisions as they apply to Member States.
§ Mr. RidleyDoes not the right hon. Gentleman find it rather surprising that his hon. Friend should take exception to the admirable work of the Communities in preventing price rings in this respect, which could have useful repercussions on our economy?
§ Mr. StewartHaving been in this House for a long time, I am never surprised by what hon. Members say.