THE POLICE COUNCIL FOR THE UNITED KINGDOM (Hansard, 25 November 1969)

§ Mr. Eldon Griffiths
I beg to move Amendment No. 12, in page 4, line 35, at end insert: (2) The staff side of the Royal Ulster Constabulary shall be represented on the Police Council for the United Kingdom by elected representatives of those of its ranks as correspond with the number in England, Wales and Scotland of chief officers, superintendents and the ranks as represented by the Police Federation. Possibly due to the printing difficulties which we have been experiencing, a number of small typographical errors appear in the Amendment, but I think that its sense is clear and I need not elaborate them today.
It is a probing Amendment. It is to confirm what I expect the Government will be glad to confirm—that it is the intention that the new Police Council for the United Kingdom will include in respect of the Royal Ulster Constabulary representation of all three principal groups of serving officers.
It will be well known to hon. Members that in the present Police Council the staff side is represented by the Association of Chief Police Officers, by the Superintendents Association and by the Police Federation in respect of all ranks below superintendent. I hope that it is the intention of the Stormont Government, with whom, rather than the House of Commons, it lies, I believe, to make similar arrangements for R.U.C. representation on the Police Council of the United Kingdom. I hope that the Minister will be able to give an assurance that it is her expectation that the Northern Ireland Parliament will approve these arrangements, or, as it may well be, that the Northern Ireland Government will make the necessary arrangements.
If the Police Council of the United Kingdom is to be a success, it is essential that those who represent the men of the 377 Royal Ulster Constabulary should feel that they are as welcome at the table as those who represent men in the British forces are welcome in the Police Council. In the past, it has been a regrettable fact that the representative body in Ulster, which has done a good job in trying circumstances, has tended to be seated a little below the salt. There has been a tendency not to provide its secretary with adequate accommodation or with adequate time off in which to do his work. I am sure that a Minister representing a Labour Government of all Governments would wish to see that those representing the staff side of the Royal Ulster Constabulary were adequately housed and had adequate time in which to do their work.
Some additional financial outlay may be required in order to make the Police Council somewhat larger. I doubt whether it will be substantial, and it may well be no more than marginal. However, I hope that the hon. Lady will accept that it has been valuable for the Police Council of Great Britain occasionally to meet in Scotland. This has enabled members to travel to a different part of the Kingdom and to experience different views in a different area. It is important, particularly in the circumstances of Ulster, that the Police Council of the United Kingdom should be able occasionally to meet in Ulster, and I hope that the financial means to permit that will be provided.

§ Mrs. Shirley Williams
I am sure that the hon. Gentleman in his very winningly put remarks will recognise that this Bill is not the vehicle to carry the Amendment he has tabled. It is, of course, for the Northern Ireland Government to do as he wishes. We expect the Northern Ireland Government to legislate for a new representative body which will be acceptable to the Royal Ulster Constabulary. I will give the further assurance that a new Police Council would not be acceptable to my right hon. Friend unless a provision of that kind were made. It is a prerequisite for accepting the new council.
We will certainly bear in mind what the hon. Gentleman has said, since it is not my desire that members of the police force should find themselves below the salt in any possible situation.

§ Mr. Eldon Griffiths
In the circumstances of the Minister's reply, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment. I would have liked to hear her say that she would see to it that the Police Council would occasionally meet in Ulster.

§ Mrs. Williams
I beg to move Amendment No. 13, in page 5, line 14, at end insert, 'rules or orders.'
This is a purely technical Amendment, concerning the addition of an extra three words, "rules or orders" to the Clause. The simple purpose is to cover not only regulations but rules or orders since this may be the form in which they arise. This merely remedies a drafting defect.