Clause 5 (Hansard, 25 November 1969)

§ Mr. Eldon Griffiths
Under Clause 5(1) there is an arrangement whereby pensions will be able to come into effect retrospectively over a period of 12 months and will not require the normal procedure of the House of Commons in approving them. I suspect that this is in the interests of speed but since it is a new departure, would the Minister explain it?

§ Mrs. Shirley Williams
I can assure the hon. Member that this is not a new departure. Under paragraph (6) of Schedule 3 of the Pensions (Increase) Act 1969 retrospective increases in dependants' wages were made possible. This is in the interests of speed and is not without precedent.

§ Mr. Carlisle
I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, that I do not intend to take up more than a minute of your time. I 379 want to place on record the fact that we are not opposing the suggestion that Report stage should follow immediately on the Committee stage, but this should not be taken in any way as a precedent, binding the Opposition in their attitude to other Bills. This Bill is not vitally urgent, since there is a commencement date well into the future.
Amendments have been moved raising points of substance which might well have been further considered before Report. But we do not object, since we understand that the Government are anxious to obtain the Bill tonight and we support the principle behind the Bill. But I emphasise that this does not mean that in principle we are happy to have Report immediately following Committee at this late hour.

§ Mr. Eldon Griffiths
I do not merely wish to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Runcorn (Mr. Carlisle) in noting the procedure; I regret it. Several important matters have been raised in Committee, and it would have been better to take the Bill in Committee upstairs, so that detailed points could be thrashed out and the Minister, with advice from her officials, might have been able to make verbal Amendments to the Bill. I join with my hon. Friend in feeling that it has been a mistake to proceed in this fashion. We could have had a better piece of legislation which would have been much more practical for the police to enforce.

§ Mrs. Shirley Williams
Of course it is not the normal practice for Report to follow on Committee; on the contrary. But I am sure the House will appreciate that the Bill raises special complications, in that it is a double harness Bill with a Parliament in another place. In consequence of this, and of the urgent need not for the Bill to be made operative immediately but for another Bill complementary to this Bill to be introduced in another place, preferably within the next few days, the Bill is being treated urgently.
Because the Bill is intended to create a new and good relationship between the police forces of Northern Ireland and of this country, it would not be appropriate for the House to make it extremely 380 difficult, if not impossible, for another place to conduct its business in such a way that the police force can be reorganised and that recruitment can start on a basis which will bring the Royal Ulster Constabulary into very close relationship with the police forces of this country.
I thank hon. Members for their help in allowing us to get the Bill tonight, and assure the House that it is not a precedent for any other occasion.