§ CONDITIONS AS TO MATTERS REQUIRED TO BE NOTIFIED TO LICENSING AUTHORITY
§ Mr. BessellI beg to move Amendment No. 235, in page 86, line 18, after ' such ', insert ' reasonable '.
This Amendment does not have any great significance. The subsection reads:
A licensing authority, in granting an operator's licence, may attach thereto such conditions as he thinks fit for requiring the holder to inform him—Then we have a series of things including changesof a kind specified in the conditions, in the organisation, management or ownership of the trade or business in the course of which the authorised vehicles are usedand various other matters spelt out in paragraphs (a), (b) and (c) and the penalties which apply under subsection (2). It seems fair to insert between the words "such" and "conditions" the word "reasonable". This would prevent a licensing authority from imposing any very severe conditions which might inhibit any person from making an application in circumstances which might make it difficult for him to obtain a licence. I do not pretend that the Amendment is of great significance, but it might reassure many people who are anxious that they should not have difficulty in obtaining a licence.
§ Mr. CarmichaelIt is reasonable to remove doubts in people's minds but the way suggested by the hon. Gentleman is not the best. Apart from the fact that it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to know what meaning to attach to the word "reasonable" in this
§ context, the subsection already sets out in some detail in paragraphs (a), (b) and (c) the types of conditions which the licensing authority may attach to a licence. Any conditions not falling within the description of those paragraphs would not in any case be allowed.
§ If an applicant felt that certain of the conditions appeared unreasonable, although falling within the scope of the subsection, he could, under Clause 66(l)(a), appeal to the Minister against the imposition of those conditions. The applicant is, therefore, well protected in his right of appeal and in the conditions laid down in paragraphs (a), (b) and (c). I hope that, on my assurance, the hon. Gentleman will withdraw the Amendment.
§ Mr. BessellI am grateful for that explanation. I readily admit that this is the kind of point we would have discussed in Standing Committee had we been able to do so. The hon. Gentleman's answer, particularly in relation to the appeal machinery, is satisfactory, and in these circumstances I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ Mr. MarshWhile the night is still young, I beg to move,
That the proceedings of this day's Sitting be suspended.
§ Question put forthwith, pursuant to Order [12th December] {Sittings of the House):—
§ The House divided: Ayes 274, Noes 227.
1719| Division No. 191.] | AYES | [12.5 a.m. |
| Albu, Austen | Bottomley, Rt. Hn. Arthur | Conlan, Bernard |
| Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) | Boydern, James | Corbet, Mrs. Freda |
| Alldritt, Walter | Braddock, Mrs. E. M. | Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) |
| Allen, Schotefield | Bradley, Tom | Crawshaw, Richard |
| Anderson, Donald | Bray, Dr. Jeremy | Cronin, John |
| Archer, Peter | Brooks, Edwin | Crosland, Rt. Hn. Anthony |
| Armstrong, Ernest | Brown, Rt. Hn. George (Belper) | Crossman, Rt. Hn. Richard |
| Atkins, Ronald (Preston, N.) | Brown, Hugh D. (G'gow, Provan) | Dalyell, Tarn |
| Atkinson, Norman (Tottenham) | Brown, Bob (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne.W.) | Davidson, Arthur (Accrington) |
| Bacon, Rt. Hn. Alice | Brown, R. W. (Shoreditch & F'bury) | Davies, Ednyfed Hudson (Conway) |
| Barnes, Michael | Buchan, Norman | Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) |
| Barnett, Joel | Buchanan, Richard (G'gow, Sp'burn) | Davies, Dr. Ernest (Stretford) |
| Bence, Cyril | Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Creen) | Davies, Harold (Leek) |
| Benn, Rt. Hn. Anthony Wedgwood | Callaghan, Rt. Hn. James | Davies, Ifor (Cower) |
| Bennett, James (G'gow, Bridgeton) | Cant, R. B. | de Freitas, Rt. Hn. Sir Geoffrey |
| Bidwell, Sydney | Carmichael, Neil | Delargy, Hugh |
| Bishop, E. S. | Carter-Jones, Lewis | Dell, Edmund |
| Blackburn, F. | Castle, Rt. Hn. Barbara | Dempsey, James |
| Blenkinsop, Arthur | Coe, Denis | Dewar, Donald |
| Boardman, H. (Leigh) | Coleman, Donald | Diamond, Rt. Hn. John |
| Booth, Albert | Concannon, J. D. | Dickens, James |
| Dobson, Ray | Kelley, Richard | Parkyn, Brian (Bedford) |
| Doig, Peter | Kerr, Mrs. Anne (R'ter & Chatham) | Pavitt, Laurence |
| Driberg, Tom | Kerr, Dr. David (W'worth, Central) | Pearson, Arthur (Pontypridd) |
| Dunnett, Jack | Lawson, George | Peart, Rt. Hn. Fred |
| Dunwoody, Mrs. Gwyneth (Exeter) | Leadbitter, Ted | Pentland, Norman |
| Dunwoody, Dr. John (F'th & C'b'e) | Ledger, Ron | Perry, Ernest G. (Battersea, S.) |
| Eadie, Alex | Lee, Rt. Hn. Frederick (Newton) | Prentice, Rt. Hn. R. E. |
| Edwards, Robert (Bilston) | Lee, John (Reading) | Price, Thomas (Westhoughton) |
| Edwards, William (Merioneth) | Lestor, Miss Joan | Price, William (Rugby) |
| Ellis, John | Lever, Harold (Cheetham) | Probert, Arthur |
| English, Michael | Lewis, Arthur (W. Ham, N.) | Rankin, John |
| Enrols, David | Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) | Rees, Merlyn |
| Ensor, David | Lipton, Marcus | Reynolds, G. W. |
| Evans, Albert (Islington, S.W.) | Lomas, Kenneth | Rhodes, Geoffrey |
| Faulds, Andrew | Loughlin, Charles | Richard, Ivor |
| Femyhough, E. | Luard, Evan | Roberts, Albert (Normanton) |
| Fitch, Alan (Wigan) | Lyons, Edward (Bradford, E.) | Robertson, John (Paisley) |
| Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) | Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson | Robinson, Rt. Hn. Kenneth (St.P'c'as) |
| Foley, Maurice | McBride, Neil | Robinson, W. O. J. (Walth'stow, E.) |
| Foot, Michael (Ebbw Vale) | McCann, John | Rodgers, William (Stockton) |
| Ford, Ben | MacColl, James | Roebuck, Roy |
| Forrester, John | MacDermot, Niall | Rose, Paul |
| Fowler, Gerry | Macdonald, A. H. | Ross, Rt. Hn. William |
| Fraser, John (Norwood) | McKay, Mrs. Margaret | Rowlands, E. (Cardiff, N.) |
| Freeson, Reginald | Mackenzie, Gregor (Rutherglen) | Ryan, John |
| Galpern, Sir Myer | Mackie, John | Shaw, Arnold (llford, S.) |
| Gardner, Tony | Mackintosh, John P. | Sheldon, Robert |
| Ginsburg, David | Maclennan, Robert | Short, Rt. Hn. Edward (N'c'tle-u-Tyne) |
| Gray, Dr. Hugh (Yarmouth) | MacMillan, Malcolm (Western Isles) | Silkin, Rt. Hn. John (Deptford) |
| Greenwood, Rt. Hn. Anthony | McMillan, Tom (Glasgow, C.) | Silkin, Hn. S. C. (Dulwich) |
| Gregory, Arnold | McNamara, J. Kevin | Silverman, Julius (Aston) |
| Grey, Charles (Durham) | MacPherson, Malcolm | Skeffington, Arthur |
| Griffiths, David (Rother Valley) | Mahon, Peter (Preston, S.) | Slater, Joseph |
| Griffiths, Will (Exchange) | Mahon, Simon (Bootle) | Small, William |
| Gunter, Rt. Hn. R. J. | Mallalieu, J.P. W.(Huddersfield,E.) | Snow, Julian |
| Hamling, William | Manuel, Archie | Spriggs, Leslie |
| Hannan, William | Marks, Kenneth | Stonehouse, John |
| Harper, Joseph | Marquand, David | Strauss, Rt. Hn. G. R. |
| Harrison, Waiter (Wakefield) | Marsh, Rt. Hn. Richard | Summerskill, Hn. Dr. Shirley |
| Haseldine, Norman | Mason, Rt. Hn. Roy | Swain, Thomas |
| Hattersley, Roy | Maxwell, Robert | Swingler, Stephen |
| Hazell, Bert | Mayhew, Christopher | Taverne, Dick |
| Heffer, Eric S. | Mendelson, J. J. | Thomas,Rt.Hn.Ceorge(Cardiff,W.) |
| Hilton, W. s. | Mikardo, Ian | Thomson, Rt. Hn. George |
| Hooley, Frank | Millan, Bruce | Tinn, James |
| Houghton, Rt. Hn. Douglas | Miller, Dr. M. S. | Tomney, Frank |
| Howarth, Harry (Wellingborough) | Miline, Edward (Blyth) | Urwin, T. W. |
| Howarth, Robert (Bolton, E.) | Mitchell, R. C. (S'th'pton, Test) | Varley, Eric G. |
| Howell, Denis (Small Heath) | Molloy, William | Wainwright, Edwin (Dearne Valley) |
| Howie, W. | Moonman, Eric | Walker, Harold (Doncaster) |
| Hoy, James | Morgan, Elystan (Cardiganshire) | Wallace, George |
| Huckfleld, Leslie | Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) | Watkins, David (Consett) |
| Hughes, Rt. Hn. Cledwyn (Anglesey) | Morris, John (Aberavon) | Watkins, Tudor (Brecon & Radnor) |
| Hughes, Emrys (Ayrshire, S.) | Moyle, Roland | Weitzman, David |
| Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) | Murray, Albert | Wellbeloved, James |
| Hughes, Roy (Newport) | Neal, Harold | Whitaker, Ben |
| Hunter, Adam | Newens, Stan | Whitlock, William |
| Hynd, John | Noel-Baker, Rt. Hn. Philip (Derby, S.) | Williams, Alan (Swansea, W.) |
| Irvine, Sir Arthur (Edge Hill) | Norwood, Christopher | Williams, Alan Lee (Hornchurch) |
| Jackson, Colin (B'h'se & Spenb'gh) | Ogden, Eric | Williams, Clifford (Abertillery) |
| Jackson, Peter M. (High Peak) | O'Malley, Brian | Williams, Mrs. Shirley (Hitchin) |
| Jay, Rt. Hn. Douglas | Oram, Albert E. | Willis, Rt. Hn. George (Edinburgh,E.) |
| Jeger,Mrs.Lena(H'b'n&st.P'cras,S.) | Orme, Stanley | Wilson, Rt. Hn. Harold (Huyton) |
| Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) | Oswald, Thomas | Winnick, David |
| Jenkins, Rt. Hn. Roy (Stechford) | Owen,Dr. David (Plymouth, S'tn) | Woodburn, Rt. Hn. A. |
| Johnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.) | Owen, Will (Morpeth) | Woof, Robert |
| Johnson, James (K'ston-on-Hull, W.) | Page, Derek (King's Lynn) | |
| Jones, Dan (Burnley) | Paget, R. T. | Yates, Victor |
| Jones, Rt. Hn. Sir Elwyn(W.Ham,S.) | Palmer, Arthur | |
| Jones, J. Idwal (Wrexham) | Pannell, Rt. Hn. Charles | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Jones, T. Alec (Rhondda, West) | Park, Trevor | Mr. Charles R. Morris and Mr. loan L. Evans |
| Judd, Frank | Parker, John (Dagenham) | |
| NOES | ||
| Allson, Michael (Barkston Ash) | Barber, Rt. Hn. Anthony | Biffen, John |
| Allason, James (Hemel Hempstead) | Batsford, Brian | Biggs-Davison, John |
| Astor, John | Beamish, Col. Sir Tufton | Black, Sir Cyril |
| Atkins, Humphrey (M't'n & M'd'n) | Bell, Ronald | Blaker, Peter |
| Awdry, Daniel | Bermett, Sir Frederick (Torquay) | Boardman, Tom (Leicester, S.W.) |
| Baker, Kenneth (Acton) | Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gos. & Fhm) | Body, Richard |
| Baker, W. H. K. (Banff) | Berry, Hn. Anthony | Bossom, Sir Cllve |
| Balniel, Lord | Bessell, Peter | Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hn. John |
| Boyle, Rt. Hn. Sir Edward | Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye) | Page, John (Harrow, W.) |
| Braine, Bernard | Harvey, Sir Arthur Vere | Pardoe, John |
| Brewis, John | Harvie Anderton, Miss | Pearson, Sir Frank (Clltheroe) |
| Brinton, Sir Tatton | Hastings, Stephen | Peel, John |
| Brown, Sir Edward (Bath) | Hawkins, Paul | Percival, Ian |
| Bruce-Gardy ne, J. | Hay, John | Peyton, John |
| Bryan, Paul | Heald, Rt. Hn. Sir Lionel | Pike, Miss Mervyn |
| Buchanan-Smith, Alick(Angus,N & M) | Heseltine, Michael | Pink, R. Bonner |
| Buck, Antony (Colchester) | Higgins, Terence L. | Pounder, Rafton |
| Bullus, Sir Eric | Hilley, Joseph | Powell, Rt. Hn. J. Enoch |
| Burden, F. A. | Hill, J. E. B. | Price, David (Eastleigh) |
| Campbell, Cordon | Hogg, Rt. Hn. Quintin | Prior, J. M. L. |
| Carlisle, Mark | Holland, Philip | Pym, Francis |
| Carr, Rt. Hn. Robert | Hooson, Emlyn | Quermell, Miss J. M. |
| Channon, H. P. G. | Hordern, Peter | Ramsden, Rt. Hn. James |
| Chichester-Clark, R. | Hornby, Richard | Rawlinson, Rt. Hn. Sir Peter |
| Clark, Henry | Howell, David (Guildford) | Renton, Rt. Hn. Sir David |
| Clegg, Walter | Hunt, John | Rhys Williams, Sir Brandon |
| Cooke, Robert | Hutchison, Michael Clark | Ridley, Hn. Nicholas |
| Corfteld, F. V. | Iremonger, T. L. | Ridsdale, Julian |
| Costam, A. p. | Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye) | Rippon, Rt. Hn. Geoffrey |
| Craddock, Sir Beresford (Spelthorne) | Jenkin, Patrick (Woodford) | Rodgers, Sir John (Sevenoaks) |
| Crosthwaite-Eyre, Sir Oliver | Johnson Smith, G. (E. Grinstead) | Rossi, Hugh (Hornsey) |
| Crouch, David | Johnston, Russell (Inverness) | Russell, Sir Ronald |
| Crowder, F. P. | Jones, Arthur (Northants, S.) | st. John-Stevas, Norman |
| Cunningham, Sir Knox | Kaberry, Sir Donald | Scott, Nicholas |
| Currle, G. B. H. | Kerby, Capt. Henry | Scott-Hopkins, James |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Kershaw, Anthony | Sharpies, Richard |
| Dance, James | Kimball, Marcus | Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & Whitby) |
| Davidson, James (Aberdeenshire,W.) | King, Evelyn (Dorset, S.) | Silvester, Frederick |
| d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry | Kirk, Peter | Sinclair, Sir George |
| Dean, Paul (Somerset, N.) | Kitson, Timothy | Smith, Dudley (W'wick& L'mington) |
| Deedes, Rt. Hn. W. F. (Ashford) | Lambton, Viscount | Smith,John (London & W'minster) |
| Dodds-Parker, Douglas | Lancaster, Col. C. G. | Speed, Keith |
| Doughty, Charles | Lane, David | Stainton, Keith |
| Douglas-Home, Rt. Hn. Sir Alec | Legge-Bourke, Sir Harry | Steel, David (Roxburgh) |
| Drayson, G. B. | Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) | Stodart, Anthony |
| du Cann, Rt. Hn. Edward | LIoyd,Rt.Hn.Geoffrey(Sut'nC'dfield) | stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir M. (Ripon) |
| Eden, Sir John | Lloyd, Ian (P'tsm'th, Langs tone) | Tapsell, Peter |
| Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshallon) | Lubbock, Eric | Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne) |
| Elliott,R.W.(N'c'tle-upon-Tyne,N.) | MacArthur, Ian | Taylor, Edward M. (G'gow.Cathcart) |
| Emery, Peter | Mackenzie,AIasdair(Ross&Crom'ty) | Taylor, Frank (Moss Side) |
| Errington, Sir Eric | Maclean, Sir Fitzroy | Teellng, Sir William |
| Ewing, Mrs. Winifred | Macleod, Rt. Hn. Iain | Temple, John M. |
| Eyre, Reginald | McMaster, Stanley | Thatcher, Mrs. Margaret |
| Farr, John | Macmillian, Maurice (Farnham) | Thorpe, Rt. Hn. Jeremy |
| Fisher, Nigel | Maddan, Martin | Vickers, Dame Joan |
| Fletcher-Coolie, Charles | Maglnnls, John E. | Wainwright, Richard (Colne Valley) |
| Forteecue, Tim | Marples, Rt. Hn. Ernest | Walker, Peter (Worcester) |
| Foster, Sir John | Marten, Neil | Wall, Patrick |
| Caibraith, Hn. T. G. | Maude, Angus | Walters, Dennis |
| Gibson-Watt, David | Mawby, Ray | Weatherill, Bernard |
| Giles, Rear-Adm. Morgan | Mills, Peter (Torrington) | Webster, David |
| Gllmour, Ian (Norfolk, C.) | Mills, Stratton (Belfast, N.) | Wells, John (Maidstone) |
| Glyn, Sir Richard | Misoampbell, Norman | Whitelaw, Rt. Hn. William |
| Godber, Rt. Hn. J. B. | Mitchell, David (Basingstoke) | Williams, Donald (Dudley) |
| Goodhart, Philip | Monro, Hector | Wills, Sir Gerald (Bridgwater) |
| Goodhew, Victor | Montgomery, Fergus | Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro) |
| Gower, Raymond | Morrison, Charles (Devizes) | Winstanley, Dr. M. P. |
| Grant, Anthony | Munro-Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh | Wolrlge-Gordon, Patrick |
| Grant-Ferris, R. | Murton, Oscar | Wodd, Rt. Hn Richard |
| Gresham Cooke, R. | Neave, Airey | Woodnutt, Mark |
| Grieve, Percy | Nicholls, Sir Harmar | worsley, Marcus |
| Griffiths, Eldon (Bury St. Edmunds) | Noble, Rt. Hn. Michael | Wylie, N. R. |
| Gurden, Harold | Nott, John | Younger, Hn. George |
| Hall, John (Wycombe) | Onslow, Cranley | |
| Hail-Davis, A. G. F. | Orr, Capt. L. P. S. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) | Orr-Ewing, Sir Ian | Mr. Jasper More and Mr. Anthony Royle. |
| Harrison, Brian (MaMon) | Page, Graham (Crosby) |