WEIGHTS AND MEASURES (Hansard, 5 March 1968)

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade (Mrs. Gwyneth Dun-woody)
I beg to move, That the Weights and Measures (Additional Metric Weights) Order, 1968, a draft of which was laid before this House on 6th February, be approved. This is a comparatively simple draft Order, and I do not wish to occupy the time of the House for too long.
The pharmaceutical industry has decided to change over, at an early date, from the use of the apothecaries series of weights to the use of the metric series in the dispensing and compounding of drugs. The Order will add four small metric weights to the list of those which 372 can be lawfully used for trade. These additions will facilitate the weighing operations of pharmacists and help them in changing over to the metric system.
The Order does not affect the continued use of the apothecaries series of weights.
I ask the House to approve the Order.

§ Mr. Michael Shaw (Scarborough and Whitby)
I thank the hon. Lady for her explanation. I do not think that we need detain the House long on this Order. I confess that, when first I saw it, I was reminded that, in certain Labour-held constituencies, the custom has been to weigh Labour supporters' votes and I thought that perhaps tonight we were legalising such delicate weights as the four grammes, three grammes and miligrammes in order to take cognisance of the changing political climate in any future election.
However, I understand that this is not the real reason, and it is of some interest 373 to note historically why these weights, which we are for the first time including in the weights allowed to be used by pharmacists, were not included in the first place. Perhaps the hon. Lady will answer two short points.
First, has the medical profession as such been consulted as well as the pharmacists? I do not know whether this will make any difference to the medical profession. From my inquiries, I understand that probably the pharmacists themselves have anticipated the authority for dealing in these weights, so from that point of view it is a good thing that we are now putting them in order.
Secondly, am I right in assuming that no fresh regulations will be required as to the appropriate abbreviations? I believe that Section 14(1, f) gives the Minister power to make regulations with regard o the accepted abbreviations. Am I right in assuming that no alteration of those abbreviations will be required due to the addition of these four new weights for pharmacists?

Mrs. Dunwoody
With your permission, Mr. Speaker, and that of the House, perhaps I may reply to the hon. Gentleman. He is quite right in his assumption that there will be no need for a further Order on this point.
The hon. Gentleman referred to consultations with the medical profession. The Board of Trade consults with everyone it considers has an interest in a matter and this, in this instance, includes the Ministry of Health which, I take it, will have had direct consultations with the medical profession.

§ Mr. Robert Cooke (Bristol, West)
Can the hon. Lady say with what departments of the medical profession these consultations took place? Can she enlarge a little on this? It is not satisfactory for the House to be told that the Board of Trade consulted those it thought should be consulted. Can we have more detail?

Mrs. Dunwoody
It is the Board of Trade's usual practice to consult very widely and, of course, the actual consultations on this subject are with the Ministry of Health. I should point out that this is of particular interest to the pharma- 374 ceutical industry and will not make any difference to the medical profession as such.

§ Mr. Graham Page (Crosby)
I apologise for not rising quickly enough to catch your eye before the hon. Lady replied, Mr. Speaker. I want to call her attention to the inconvenience of the drafting of Article 2 which says: This Order…shall come into operation 7 days after it has been approved by resolution of each House of Parliament". This means that nowhere in the Order will it be stated on what date exactly it comes into operation. The inconvenience will be that anyone reading the Order will have to look up the HANSARDS of both Houses to see the date on which it comes into operation. It is a better practice in such a draft Order to leave a date blank as to when it comes into operation and fill it in eventually when it passes both Houses.
I appreciate that, at the head of the Order, there will be a statement, "coming into operation on such-and-such a date", but not in the body of the Order. It is an inconvenient way to draft it and it would have been better to have left a blank for the date and to put the date in the Order.

§ Mr. Robert Cooke (Bristol, West)
I do not want to make a long speech. I had hoped to get out of the hon. Lady the answer I require. I want to make the point that, when a Minister comes here and says that one of our great professions has been properly consulted in a certain matter, and then, when asked exactly how those consultations took place or by whom they were conducted, is only able to give an unsatisfactory answer that someone did it because it is usually their concern to do these things, the House is entitled to a little more explanation by that Minister.

Mrs. Dunwoody
May I assure the hon. Member for Bristol, West (Mr. Robert Cooke) that the British Medical Association, which is normally regarded by the majority of people as being a perfectly adequate means of representing the medical profession, was consulted. I am sorry if he feels that it does not represent—

§ Mr. Cooke
rose—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman has exhausted his right to speak. He may intervene only if the Minister allows him.

Mrs. Dunwoody
rose—

§ Mr. Cooke
Will the Minister allow me to ask her this one question? Will she very closely examine what I said in asking her the previous question, because she will find that I cast no asper- 376 sions whatever on the British Medical Association or anyone else. If she had given the answer to the House for which I asked at the outset we should not have had this exchange.

Mrs. Dunwoody
If I may take up, with your permission, Mr. Speaker, the other point, the draft is a standard one and the actual date will be specified when the Order is signed.