HC Deb 31 January 1968 vol 757 cc1321-3
5. Mr. Bruce-Gardyne

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will instruct the Scottish Planning Department to carry out an up-to-date survey of the reasons for the increase in emigration overseas from Scotland and the decline in the population of Scotland since 1964.

Mr. Ross

A detailed study and analysis of migration movements is being carried out by a working party of the Scottish Economic Planning Board as part of a wider examination of population problems.

Mr. Bruce-Gardyne

Surely it is not a coincidence that there has been this rapid and sustained rise in emigration overseas since the right hon. Gentleman took office? If he cannot think of anything better to do, would he consider seeking an assisted passage to Australia for himself and his family and, if the Australians will not assist his passage, asking the people of Scotland, who would?

Mr. Ross

As far as I recall, the last Member of Parliament who went to Australia from this place was a Conservative, and he came back. This rise in migration started back in 1951–52. What we have been able to do in two years is stem considerably the flow to the south. We are also concerned with the overseas migration. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that this must have worried his Ministers, but there was no evidence of highlighting this in their considerations of industrial and economic policies in Scotland in this House.

Mr. David Steel

Does the right hon. Gentleman not think, though, that there is a case for surveying the reasons for this increase in emigration overseas? Particularly, will he look at some evidence which exists that people go overseas on unreasonable assumptions about the standard of living which they will get and so on? Perhaps there is something which we can do in this direction.

Mr. Ross

This is true. It is difficult to get at motives, because this entails interviewing the people who have already gone, and it is not easy to reach them, but we have got together a working party of the Scottish Development Department, the Ministry of Labour, the Registrar-General and the Scottish Statistical Office, which is going into the facts. We are studying the places which these people leave and those to which they go, and we are satisfied that we may get from an analysis of these facts an indication of motives which will back up some of the other things we have been given. Sometimes, also, the justifications for going are unrelated to the true motives.

Mr. Manuel

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there has always been much emigration from Scotland overseas? Is he further aware that it is not always economic reasons that persuade people to go abroad; that we have always had a spirit of adventure and loyalty and a wish to advance Scotland's cause? Many of them have proud records which should not be trailed through the mud.

Mr. Ross

My hon. Friend is right in pointing out that Scotsmen have often been footloose. The prosperity of the world would have been less if it were not for Scotsmen going abroad. This will always be so. The pattern today is not one of people going from Scotland because they have no jobs, but of people being lured from jobs in Scotland because manpower is scarce elsewhere. We have to ensure that we should create the right opportunities—properly paid opportunities—in Scotland for our own people.

Mrs. Ewing

When was the working party set up?

Mr. Ross

An announcement was made in this House, or in another place by Lord Hughes, on 6th December.