HC Deb 21 February 1968 vol 759 cc421-2
18. Mr. Webster

asked the Minister of. Transport what consultations she had with local authorities between the publication of the White Paper on Public Transport Authorities and the printing of the Transport Bill.

Mrs. Castle

We had very full consultations with local authorities before the White Paper was published.

Mr. Webster

Is the Minister aware that there was an interval of three days between publication of the White Paper and the appearance of the Bill, and the letters emanating from her office had led local authorities concerned to understand that there was to be adequate consultation between the publication of the White Paper and the appearance of the Bill? As a result, have they not been seriously misled?

Mrs. Castle

No. I cannot accept that, because we promised full consultation with the local authorities, and it is obviously very important that those should have taken place. It was because those consultations were going on right through November and because we wished to incorporate their results in the White Paper that publication of the White Paper came so near to the appearance of the Bill.

Mr. Ogden

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, when the Merseyside Steering Committee met to discuss the setting up of a passenger transport authority for the region, the votes on that occasion were almost equal, but that 15 members of a Conservative-controlled council abstained? Is that not an indication that even Conservative-controlled councils in the region are secretly in favour of the proposals?

Mrs. Castle

I think that my hon. Friend's facts are broadly correct, although I could not testify to every detail. It is true that many Conservative councils view with great enthusiasm the prospect of a big extension in the rôle of local government in this sphere of activity and that, as soon as the party political battle dust has settled, they will join with enthusism in making a success of the P.T.As., just as the G.L.C. will in London.

Mr. Peter Walker

Returning to the main question, is the Minister aware that a letter went from her Ministry to a local authority stating categorically that there would be time for consultations between the publication of the White Paper and the Bill and that this commitment was not kept?

Mrs. Castle

Consultations with the local authorities are still going on. They have gone on since Second Reading. A new round of consultations is about to start. It was important to pay attention to local authority views and get them reflected in the White Paper. It is obvious to anyone who compares the proposals in the White Paper with those in my original memorandum, on which I first went out for consultation, that we have listened to the local authorities and have embodied their views in the White Paper and the Bill.

Mr. Webster

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.