HC Deb 31 May 1967 vol 747 cc76-7
16. Mr. Woodnutt

asked the Secretary of State for Defence if he will state the extent of the loss to British shipyards in terms of employment and exports by the placing of an order by South Africa with the French Government for three submarines; and if he will reconsider Her Majesty's Government's ban on the supply of armaments to South Africa.

43. Mr. Biggs-Davison

asked the Secretary of State for Defence what efforts were made by his Department to secure for the United Kingdom the order for three submarines placed by the South African Government in France; and whether he will make a statement.

The Minister of Defence for Equipment (Mr. Roy Mason)

We made no efforts to secure the order for these submarines since this would have been inconsistent with Her Majesty's Government's policy on arms supplies to South Africa. The fact that the French have obtained the order does not call for a review of our policy on this matter.

Mr. Woodnutt

As I first tabled this Question to the Prime Minister, and it has been transferred to the Minister of Defence who seems unable to answer the first part of the Question, which is the major part, would not the hon. Gentleman agree that this is again a case of the Prime Minister's dodging the issue by switching the Question?

Mr. Mason

Not by any means. It is my responsibility to answer this type of question on arms procurement. I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman has not got any specific answer to the first part of his Question, but it would be very difficult to evaluate what loss of arms orders there are because of the arms embargo.

Mr. Paget

Will my hon. Friend say whether there has been any change in our declared policy of refusing arms to South Africa of a nature which could be used in civil repression, and will he say just which civilians are to be repressed by submarines?

Mr. Mason

There has been no change in our policy since the Prime Minister announced the arms embargo on 17th November, 1964.

Mr. Atkins

When reviewing Her Majesty's policy towards South Africa, in view of the events going on in the Middle East, will the hon. Gentleman keep in mind that we may easily require the friendly co-operation of South Africa?

Mr. Mason

All those matters are kept under consideration.

Mr. William Hamilton

Does not my hon. Friend recognise that there is a conflict between Government policy on refusing to build ships for, or sell ships to, South Africa and allowing them to visit South African ports?

Mr. Mason

That is a different question, and there are a number of others on the Order Paper to answer this afternoon.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter

What public purpose is served by having South African submarines built in France, rather than in British shipyards?

Mr. Mason

It is that the Government, as the previous Governments did in 1963 and 1964, are standing by a United Nations Resolution and a Security Council Resolution that we would avoid all arms shipments to South Africa.