HC Deb 06 March 1967 vol 742 cc1033-4
22. Mr. Booth

asked the Minister of Public Building and Works how many self-employed draughtsmen are engaged by his Department.

Mr. Prentice

None is directly engaged. We use about 350 draughtsmen supplied by agencies and I am taking steps to ensure that each of these is a bona fide employee. It is not my policy to use self-employed draughtsmen.

Mr. Booth

Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that it is not the intention of his Ministry to employ self-employed draughtsmen in drawing offices in view of the fact that this practice is disrupting normal salary arrangements made in certain offices?

Mr. Prentice

Yes, I can give that assurance. Each agency is being asked by letter to confirm that the people involved are bona fide employees. If we discover that some are not, the services of those people will be terminated as soon as possible without jeopardising the work they are doing at the moment.

Dame Irene Ward

Am I right in assuming from that reply that the right hon. Gentleman is not against self-employed people, because I believe in self-employed people as well as others?

Mr. Prentice

I think we all approve of self-employment in the real sense of the term. What I hope hon. Members on both sides of the House would not approve of is any bogus form of self-employment designed to dodge tax, National Insurance and other liabilities.

Mr. Orme

Is my right hon. Friend aware that we welcome this statement he has made, which is a refutation of what the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Mr. Powell) was advocating in Salford last Friday?

Mr. Allason

Before the Minister gives way to this pressure to have a closed shop within his Ministry, will he consult the Minister of Labour about his known views regarding a compulsory closed shop? Has he noticed that there are threats of industrial action against firms by the Draughtsmen and Allied Technicians' Association to enforce a closed shop? Has he been under any such pressure himself?

Mr. Prentice

I made no reference to a closed shop. I take a closed shop to mean compulsory trade union membership, which is something entirely different. It is not my policy to engage people who are self-employed and using the cloak of self-employment as a method of avoiding their social obligations.