HC Deb 12 July 1967 vol 750 cc789-91
19 and 20. Mr. Edward M. Taylor

asked the Minister of Transport (1) what estimate has been made by British Rail- ways of the numbers of footplate and other staff who are retained in employment as a result of agreements on increased productivity and more efficient operation but for which no necessary work is available;

(2) how many firemen employed by British Railways have been made redundant since 1965 as a result of the introduction of single manning of electric and diesel trains; and in what types of work these men have been redeployed.

21. Mr. Webster

asked the Minister of Transport how many drivers, firemen and guards British Railways have estimated can be made redundant now without loss in efficiency or safety; and what estimate they have made of the financial saving to be obtained.

Mr. John Morris

The Railways Board estimates that about 1,600 firemen surplus to requirements as a result of the single manning agreement of October. 1965, under which they are protected against redundancy, continue to be employed on footplate duties at a cost of approximately I million a year. Overall, of course, the agreement will in due course produce considerable savings for the Board. No drivers or guards, and only a very small number of other railway staff, are retained in employment though surplus to requirements.

Mr. Taylor

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that that reply does not entirely tie up with many of the reports we have seen, particularly the report of one depot manager that one-third of his staff was redundant for all practical purposes? Does the Minister also agree that it is very bad for the morale of British Rail if it has a pool of unused labour? Can he see any way that this problem might be tackled in the future?

Mr. Morris

I think that the hon. Gentleman is referring to a report in a particular newspaper. I cannot accept its implications. The numbers are overstated, and they will decline rather than grow. Since 1965 the number of footplate men has dropped from 49,000 to 41,000. The railway unions should be commended for the great reduction that has taken place in the number of railwaymen over the past four years. The present surplus is only 4 per cent. of the total footplate staff, and they are being utilised.

Mr. Webster

What would have been the cost of compensation for termination of employment in this case?

Mr. Morris

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will put down a specific Question on that. The agreement is very valuable for the industry and will begin to pay its way very shortly. Over a very few years it will have more than paid its way for the full period.

Mr. Mapp

Is my hon. Friend aware that in the last accountable year there was a 7 per cent. reduction in the number of railway posts, when there was practically no change in gross railway receipts? Should there not be complete approval of the co-operation between the British Railways Board and the railway unions, which we on this side of the House were glad to see and are glad to see continued?

Mr. Morris

As I said earlier, the railway unions and management are to be commended for the great reduction of 160,000 men in the industry that has taken place over four years. It is exceedingly difficult in any industry where there is contraction for this kind of arrangement to be so successful.