HC Deb 25 April 1967 vol 745 cc1321-2
Q2. Mr. Moonman

asked the Prime Minister if he will centralise the personnel and staff functions in the Civil Service so that this work might be tackled more effectively and in keeping with modern personnel management practice.

Mr. George Brown

I have been asked to reply.

The general management of the Civil Service is already centralised. Each Minister is responsible for the staffing of his own Department, however, and practical efficiency also requires some personnel work to be done within each Department. It would be premature to consider any changes in this field before the Fulton Committee reports.

Mr. Moonman

Is my right hon. Friend aware that in industry effective use of personnel skills usually arises when a specialist executive is placed on the board? Would not he consider the establishment of a separate Department concerning itself with personnel skills and having a separate Minister answerable here?

Mr. Brown

Having myself served for a very long period of years in one capacity or another in a large number of Departments, I believe that what my hon. Friend is suggesting is the wrong analogy. In fact, I think that these personnel matters are better handled in each Department, remembering that each one is itself a very large organisation.

Sir A. V. Harvey

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that most of industry is now trying to reduce its office staff and workers generally in order to try to help the economy? Would not he agree that the Government should follow suit and reduce the number of civil servants throughout the country?

Mr. Brown

Yes, Sir, but it should be remembered that the number of staff any organisation employs—whether it is a private or public enterprise—must, of course, be related to policies—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."]—and since we are always being pressed by hon. Gentlemen opposite to do more in various spheres, it must be accepted that we require more people to carry out these tasks. I believe that at the end of the day we shall be judged—[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."]—not so much by the number of people we employ but by the results of our policies; and by the time of the next General Election we will be perfectly willing to be so judged.

Mr. Barnett

Would not the country have saved many millions of £s if we had had more civil servants in the Ministry of Civil Aviation?