HC Deb 11 May 1966 vol 728 cc408-11
Mr. Mendelson

Mr. Speaker, I wish to ask permission to move the Adjournment of the House under Standing Order No. 9 for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the announcement by the Secretary of State for Defence that Her Majesty's Government have decided to supply arms to South Vietnam, and to parties fighting in that area. I do so in view of the fact that Her Majesty's Government are a co-Chairman of the Geneva Conference and should be strictly neutral in this conflict.

Mr. Speaker, unlike what happens on other occasions, I have had no opportunity to give you any warning of my intention to move this Motion under Standing Order No. 9 because we had no knowledge that an announcement was to be made by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence in reply to a Question at the end of Questions.

I want briefly to submit, strictly on the constitutional aspects of the matter, why, under Standing Order No. 9, I ask for your permission to have the leave of the House to move the Adjournment, without entering into the substance of the matter.

First, I think that this is the first time that this decision has been announced by a member of the Cabinet speaking on behalf of the Government, and, as you and the House know, it is essential under this Standing Order to seek to move the Adjournment at the earliest possible opportunity. That is why I am doing so now.

Secondly, the matter is urgent because, according to all reports, many of the events in Vietnam are moving to a crisis, and it is, therefore, all the more essential that Britain, as one of the co-Chairmen, should be in a position to act quickly, if necessary, to help in bringing the conflict to an end. This decision to supply arms under certain circumstances will make it almost impossible for Her Majesty's Government to play any useful part as co-Chairman of the Geneva Conference.

Thirdly, the matter is definite because in the announcement contained in the statement made by my right hon. Friend there was an expression not only of the feeling of Executive decision but of Executive intention, so that it is quite conceivable that such arms might be supplied within the shortest possible time.

Finally, it is essential that we should all remember that when such announcements are made the House of Commons cannot exercise its function of affirming and asserting the Government's policies, so acting as a check on the Government's policies, unless there is an opportunity to debate the matter immediately after the announcement.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member seeks leave to move the Adjournment of the House under Standing Order No. 9 for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance, namely, the announcement by the Secretary of State for Defence that Her Majesty's Government have decided to supply arms to South Vietnam and parties involved in a conflict in which Her Majesty's Government, as co-Chairman of the Geneva Conference, should be strictly neutral. I make no complaint of the fact that I have had no previous notice of this Motion. It may be in the course of events that an hon. Member may seek to raise, under Standing Order No. 9, something of which it would be impossible to give Mr. Speaker previous notice. I would say, on the other hand, that it is also invaluable, from the point of view of the House and the nature of the important decisions that Mr. Speaker has to make, that he should, whenever possible, have previous indication of someone's intention to invoke Standing Order No. 9.

I am advised that the announcement to which the hon. Member refers is part of governmental administration; that there are opportunities for a debate on Government policy, including this aspect of Government policy, and that there are precedents which prevent me from allowing the application of Standing Order No. 9 for this purpose. Therefore, I must reject the hon. Member's application.

The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr. Denis Healey)

On a point of order. I do not wish to comment on your decision, Mr. Speaker, but I want to make it clear that I made no announcement in the terms to which my hon. Friend has referred. Indeed, the statement that he has attributed to me was not made, and is not Government policy.

Mr. Speaker

That matter must arise in the course of some other kind of debate.

Mr. Frank Allaun

On a point of order. It has been announced that Britain is supplying military Hovercraft to South Vietnam—

Mr. Speaker

We cannot debate the issue whether the hon. Member who sought to raise this matter under Standing Order No. 9 was correct in the statement that he made about the Minister of Defence. We must leave it. That must be debated on some other occasion, and not in the guise of a point of order.

Mr. Rankin

On a point of order. Do I take it that during the course of the debate during the second half of today's business, when we are discussing the Bill on military aircraft, it will be possible to make some reference to the question of the Hovercraft?

Mr. Speaker

I never like ruling hypothetically on what will be in order on a debate. I will judge that at the time when the hon. Member seeks to make a reference to it. I will have to decide then whether or not it is in order.

Mr. Shinwell

On a point of order. I was under the impression that my hon. Friend the Member for West Stirlingshire (Mr. W. Baxter), after the announcement had been made, gave notice that he would raise it on the Adjournment.

Mr. Speaker

Possibly that will be done. An Adjournment is one of the Parliamentary opportunities to which I referred on which a Government decision can be questioned or opposed. But this has nothing to do with a Member's right to seek to raise a matter under Standing Order No. 9.

Mr. Shinwell

Do I understand, Sir, that once an hon. Member has given notice that he will raise a matter on the Adjournment it is still possible to raise it under Standing Order No. 9?

Mr. Speaker

I can conceive circumstances in which I can conceive that it would be possible. I shall have to look into that matter.