HC Deb 10 February 1966 vol 724 cc600-1
27. Mr. Brewis

asked the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs why he has referred the salary scales, negotiated for Scottish teachers by the Scottish Joint Council, to the National Board for Prices and Incomes.

Mr. George Brown

The Board has been asked to consider whether the overall increase of 13 per cent. proposed by the Government puts Scottish teachers generally in a fair relationship with teachers in England and Wales.

Mr. Brewis

Would the right hon. Gentleman elaborate on that? How far does he intend to correlate the salaries of English teachers and Scottish teachers in view of the wide difference in training qualifications? Will he give an assurance that he does not intend to do that?

Mr. Brown

The Secretary of State for Scotland retains his rights in the fixation of teachers' salaries in Scotland. The matter rests with him, and nobody is talking about disturbing his rights. On the other hand, it seemed to us as well as everybody else that there was something to be said for an independent body to look at the question to see whether the relationship was fair, and this seemed to be the right body to do it.

Mr. William Hamilton

Is the 13 per cent. guaranteed already to teachers no matter what the Board says? Will the Board be able to recommend an additional 2 or 3 per cent., or whatever it may be?

Mr. Brown

The 13 per cent. is the fixation; it is fixed. When we receive the Board's report we will be able to consider the situation thereafter.

Mr. George Y. Mackie

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that the prices and incomes policy must surely take into account the desperate need for teachers and the fact that the breaking of the joint negotiating council's agreement will certainly ensure that there will not be enough teachers to allow the raising of the school leaving age in Scotland in 1970?

Mr. Brown

Those are not the terms of the reference. This is a general question about teachers anywhere in these islands. I think that hon. Members are missing the point of the reference. We think that we should make sure that Scottish teachers are in a fair relationship with their English and Welsh colleagues. I should have expected that to be welcomed by Scottish Members.

Mr. John Hynd

May we have an assurance from the Minister that on this occasion the Board will not give a ruling that the awards for teachers shall be based, as is the case with railwaymen, on the profitability of their service?

Mr. Brown

I do not think that my hon. Friend accurately reflects the Report on the railwaymen. I do not think that I should anticipate the report which the Board will make to me on this question.