HC Deb 24 March 1965 vol 709 cc537-40
4. Mr. Channon

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster whether, in his review of the social security arrangements, he will take into account the findings of the Allen Committee.

5. Mr. William Hamilton

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster to what extent he will take account of the comments of the Allen Committee on the problems of those on low incomes in his review of social security problems.

11. Mr. Bence

asked the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster what steps he intends to take to alleviate the hardship of those on low incomes as described in the Report of the Allen Committee on the Rating System.

Mr. Houghton

The Report of the Allen Committee is being studied. I am aware of its estimate of the number of people entitled to National Assistance but not receiving it. On this point, I am awaiting further information from the survey which will shortly be made into the financial and other circumstances of retirement pensioners. When the facts have been established, so far as this is possible, they will be considered in our review.

Mr. Channon

Will the Chancellor say when he expects to receive this report and that he regards it as a matter of urgency and will co-ordinate his activities with those of the Minister of Housing, because the Allen Committee has shown this to be a matter which requires urgent consideration and examination? When are the Government likely to come forward with the positive proposals which are urgently needed?

Mr. Houghton

I agree that it is eminently desirable that those who are entitled to National Assistance but who do not draw it should be made aware of their rights and encouraged to use them. That would bring great comfort on all sides of the House. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance said only on Monday, however, that she was considering further publicity to bring National Assistance and their rights and entitlement to the notice of those who may he concerned.

Mr. Driberg

For the information of hon. Members, will my right hon. Friend be good enough to define and clarify the limits of his responsibility? Will he explain, for instance, why he is answering these Questions about his general review of social security but has transferred other Questions, also concerning the general review, to the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance?

Mr. Houghton

In general, my responsibilities are those of co-ordination of the social services, and Questions in the House about co-ordination of the social services will normally come to me, but Questions relating even to the review of a particular sector of the social services could appropriately go to the Minister concerned. As my hon. Friend will realise, it is not easy to draw a firm line of division between the responsibilities of the co-ordinator and those of the departmental Minister concerned. We do our best to get these matters in proper order, but in general the position is as I have stated.

Lord Balniel

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the statement which he has just made announcing further delay before action is taken to help those with low incomes to pay their rates is disappointing? Does not the right hon. Gentleman recollect that in the manifesto of the Labour Party he was pledged to lighten the burden of rates, which today falls heavily on those with low incomes, but that so far no action has been taken? When does the right hon. Gentleman expect publication of the report to which he has referred?

Mr. Houghton

The part of the Allen Report to which the Question was addressed related to the Committee's opinion of the number of persons who may be entitled to National Assistance but are not claiming it, and it was to that that I addressed my reply. The inquiry which is being undertaken by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance on the financial and other circumstances of retirement pensioners is designed to discover more about this matter and to ascertain as far as possible the truth about the extent to which people are entitled to National Assistance but are not claiming it. That survey is to be conducted this summer. A pilot survey was conducted last autumn and was referred to in a speech which I made in the House.

Mr. Speaker

Mr. Jenkin.

Mr. Hamilton

On a point of order. Was Question No.5 answered with No.4, Mr. Speaker?

Several Hon. Members

The hon. Member was not here when it was called.

Mr. Hamilton

I am here now.

Mr. Speaker

I regret the circumstances. I had not noticed the arrival of the hon. Member. I looked for him in the place which he usually occupies. He will have to forgo asking a supplementary question this time if he will forgive me.

Mr. Hamilton

On a point of order. In view of the very unsatisfactory nature of the Answers and the fact that I was not called, I beg to give notice that I will raise this matter on the Adjournment.

Mr. Bence

On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, I have not been called to ask Question No.11.

Mr. Speaker

That was answered with Question No.4. [Interruption.] Order. Even if it seems pompous, I must remind the House of its duty to hear the Chair in silence, otherwise it gets misheard and there is trouble. I was telling the hon. Member that his Question was answered with Question No.4.