Incomes and Prices (Hansard, 22 July 1965)

§ 6. Mr. Hamling
asked the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs whether he will issue a statement of Her Majesty's Government's policy on incomes and prices in simple language for popular distribution.

§ Mr. George Brown
A popular broadsheet on the need for a Prices and Incomes Policy was issued last month, the demand for which exceeded 200,000. Another on the machinery to make it effective is now ready. I will send copies to the hon. Member and will make copies available in the Library.

§ Mr. Hamling
While congratulating my right hon. Friend, may I ask him to bear in mind that what is particularly needed for some people, especially some hon. Members, is a distinction between an incomes policy and a wage freeze?

§ Mr. Brown
In that case my hon. Friend and anyone similarly afflicted had better read the popular broadsheet.

§ Sir D. Renton
Has the right hon. Gentleman considered the part that can be played in preventing wage-cost inflation by encouraging collective agreements? Will he study the Motion on the Order Paper today which sets that out?

§ Mr. Brown
Nothing we have ever done has ever discouraged collective agreements. I welcome the conversion of the right hon. and learned Member.

§ 7. Mr. Marten
asked the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs what steps Her Majesty's Government will now take to check the rise in prices.

§ 8. Mr. Fisher
asked the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs if he will seek to hold fresh discussions with the Trades Union Congress on the prices and incomes policy of Her Majesty's Government, in view of recent statements by trade union officials concerning this policy.

§ 12. Mr. Ron Lewis
asked the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs if he is satisfied with the progress made up to date in the implementation of his Incomes and Prices policy; and if he will make a statement.

§ 31. Brigadier Clarke
asked the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs what further steps he proposes to take to prevent breaches of his incomes policy.

§ Mr. George Brown
No one who is concerned about our national well-being 1811 can feel satisfied with the current inflationary rise in prices and money incomes. Unless all concerned make a much more serious effort to observe in practice the general principles which have been agreed between Government, management and unions, we shall damage our prospects of achieving a more rapid rate of growth of output, exports and real incomes. I am considering in consultation with representatives of management and unions possible ways of developing and strengthening the agreed policy for prices and incomes.

§ Mr. Marten
In view of the rise in prices, which has been much more considerable recently than in the past few years—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—oh, yes—what action does the First Secretary propose to take if his voluntary principles do not succeed?

§ Mr. Brown
If the voluntary principle does not succeed, quite a lot of people will be at fault. At the moment, I am discussing with both sides—indeed all sides, management, manufacturers and the unions—what steps we can take to ensure that the voluntary principle does succeed. I am sure the hon. Member is asking himself what happens in a democratic society if the voluntary principle fails.

§ Mr. Fisher
As the right hon. Gentleman's incomes policy is now virtually in ruins—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—with wage increases of about 9 per cent. instead of 3 per cent., will he use influence with his own union and his Cabinet colleagues to secure their co-operation and tell the House on whose side the Minister of Technology is—on the side of the Cabinet or of the Transport and General Workers Union?

§ Mr. Brown
Yes, Sir. It would be easier to answer this if I knew who was on which side among hon. Members opposite. Last night the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Mr. Powell) said that anyone who deliberately got less than the best possible return for his labour, anyone exercising restraint, was guilty of a kind of sabotage. On whose side is he?

§ Mr. Lewis
Despite the moanings and groanings of hon. Members opposite, may I assure my right hon. Friend that we on 1812 this side of the House wish him every success in his endeavours?

§ Brigadier Clarke
Does the First Secretary realise that most people think that his incomes policy is a colossal flop?

§ Mr. Brown
Some hon. Members opposite think it is a flop and some think that it should not have been started. They had better make up their minds, because the country takes a totally different view from both those views.

§ Sir T. Beamish
Will the right hon. Gentleman say what is the explanation of the fact that prices have gone up two and a half or three times faster in the last six months than the average of the last five years of Conservative Government?

§ Mr. Brown
That is not in fact so. One of the things I would have thought everyone who cares about the stability and future of the country would do would be to help us to stop price increases going on.

§ 22 and 23. Mr. Ridley
asked the First Secretary of State and Secretary of State for Economic Affairs (1) by how much prices have risen since October, 1964;

§ Mr. George Brown
By 4.4 per cent.
It is not possible to give the effect of the abolition of resale price maintenance on this figure, but so far this can only have been slight.

§ Mr. Ridley
Does the First Secretary remember that the Queen's Speech said, "My Ministers will work for more stable prices"? Does not he think that the 4.4 per cent. increase in this period is really letting the nation down? Would he further agree that by the Resale Prices Act he has had his bacon saved, and will he acknowledge publicly his debt to my right hon. Friend the Member for Bexley (Mr. Heath)?

§ Mr. Brown
The hon. Member had better reconsider who it is who puts up prices. The register set up under the Resale Prices Act covers 490 classes of goods which so far are exempted. It does 1813 not seem to me that that can be playing very much of a part at the moment.

§ Mr. Rankin
Could my right hon. Friend give us some idea of how dividends have increased in the same period?

§ Mr. Brown
I answered that Question earlier. It was a good deal greater than 4.4 per cent.

§ Mr. William Clark
Does not the right hon. Gentleman agree that the figure of 4.4 per cent. is way in excess of the increase in the same period last year? Will he further agree that most of this price increase has come about because of the two Budgets introduced by his right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer?

§ Mr. Brown
And a good deal of it has come about because the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Mr. Powell) continually says that anybody who gets prices down is guilty of sabotage.

§ Mr. Stratton Mills
Has the right hon. Gentleman estimated by how much prices might have risen but for the activities of his Department?

§ Mr. Brown
No, Sir, but I can also say that we might have had a good deal more success if we had been supported by right hon. Members opposite instead of being consistently opposed.

§ Mr. Tinn
Will my right hon. Friend confirm that last year unemployment was also in excess of what it is this year?

§ Mr. Brown
That seems to me to be a different question—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."]—the answer to which is, Yes, Sir.