HC Deb 07 April 1965 vol 710 cc457-60
3. Mr. Wall

asked the Paymaster-General what improvements be proposes to make in the co-ordination of home information services.

12. Mr. Stratton Mills

asked the Pay-m aster-General what improvements he proposes to make in the co-ordination of home information services.

Mr. Wigg

Yes, Sir.

Mr. Wall

Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that he continually criticised my right hon. Friend the Member for Ashford (Mr. Deedes) for allegedly introducing political considerations into his duty of co-ordinating all home information services? Can he say how he is going to do this job, bearing in mind the fact that he is the leading party tactician? Can he explain his Answer and tell us how he is going to carry out his job?

Mr. Wigg

I am going to carry out my responsibility in accordance with the Answer given by the Prime Minister on 12th November, 1964, at column 1186 of HANSARD.

Mr. Selwyn Lloyd

I do not think that the right hon. Gentleman can be aware of what he said. He was asked what improvements he proposed to make in the co-ordination of home information services, and his Answer was, "Yes, Sir".

Mr. Wigg

The Answer that I have given is the answer to the Question on the Order Paper. If the right hon. and learned Member wants an answer to his supplementary question, I can tell him that I am responsible for answering Questions in this House about co-ordination. That is what I am doing.

Hon. Members

What does "Yes, Sir" mean?

Mr. Wall

In the past the right hon. Gentleman criticised his predecessor for introducing party politics into the Government's information services. The right hon. Gentleman is now responsible for this service. How will he make improvements to it so that this criticism cannot be made against him?

Mr. Rankin

Yes, Sir.

Mr. Wigg

I do not think that hon. Gentlemen opposite have yet grasped this. The Prime Minister, in the Answer to which I have referred, said that I would answer Questions about the co-ordination of home information services. That is what I am endeavouring to do.

Mr. Stratton Mills

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman on his appointment to the greatest sinecure in the Western hemisphere, but would he look again at his Order Paper to see whether, by chance, he has answered the wrong Question? Can he answer this specific point: does he see in advance the text of speeches of his fellow members of the Cabinet which impinge on the work of other Departments? May I, in particular, draw his attention to the fact that the speeches of the Minister of Housing and Local Government need rather a lot of co-ordinating?

Mr. Wigg

Responsibility for housing is a matter for the Minister of Housing and Local Government. My responsibility is to answer Questions about the coordination of home information services.

With regard to the hon. Gentleman's reference to a sinecure, perhaps I might point out that the office which I hold has been held by a considerable number of hon. Gentlemen opposite. It astonishes me that they discover this office to be a sinecure only when it is occupied by somebody on this side of the House.

Sir W. Bromley-Davenport

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain, in answer to the supplementary questions asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice (Mr. Wall) and my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Wirral Mr. Selwyn Lloyd), how the Answer "Yes, Sir" to Question No. 3 makes any sense at all?

Hon. Members

Answer.

Mr. Wigg

I can only repeat once again that they will have to look at the Answer given by the Prime Minister on 12th November, 1964. [Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker

Order. If hon. Members cannot maintain their enthusiasm and control sufficiently to enable Questions which they have asked to be answered, they will have to go elsewhere to exercise control.

Mr. Wigg

Once again I want to answer hon. Members by asking them to have a look at the reply given by the Prime Minister to a Question on 12th November. If they will do this and then put down other Questions they will be able to keep in order. At the moment they have not done that.

Mr. Wall

In view of the lack of answer to Question No. 3, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.

Mr. Speaker

I will deem the hon. Member to have said, "In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment."

Mr. Kershaw

On a point of order. Is it not clear that the right hon. Gentleman has unfortunately made an error, and must be answering some other Question? On the face of it the text of his Answer makes absolutely no sense. Is it not clear that he has been reading the wrong Answer? Will he turn over the pages of his Answers?

Mr. Speaker

When an hon. Member rises to a point of order he is trusted to raise that which is a point of order. For how long I shall have to repeat this warning I do not know, but it will not be for very long. It is clearly in the interests of all of us that the practice of rising to points of order which are not points of order should be stopped.

Mr. Kershaw

Further to that point of order. I regret having to say so, Mr. Speaker, but I consider your Ruling not to be entirely fair to me. Is it not clear that when a right hon. Gentleman answers a Question in a way that is grammatically quite wrong, there may well be cause to suggest—

Mr. Speaker

Is it the wish of the hon. Member to assure the House that he believes that he is raising a point of order for the Chair?

Mr. Kershaw

No, I do not wish to assure the House of that, Mr. Speaker. I wish to assure the House that this is a point of order. If the right hon. Gentleman has made a mistake, and there is genuine ground for believing that this is so, because his answer makes no sense, it is surely a point of order.

Mr. Speaker

I have not the leisure to explain to the hon. Member at the moment what is or what is not a point of order. Whether or not a Minister speaks in terms of English grammar raises no point of order for the Chair. Whether or not a Minister's Answer makes sense or does not make sense raises no point of order for the Chair. This is a matter of the utmost seriousness. If this practice is persisted in, however mighty and important in misconceiving himself the hon. Member concerned is, he will really have to go. Let us put a stop to this business of raising bogus points of order.