NUCLEAR WEAPONS (Hansard, 7 May 1964)

§ Q3. Mr. A. Henderson
asked the Prime Minister what representations he has made to President Johnson and Mr. Khrushchev, with a view to preventing the proliferation of nuclear weapons, in view of the information in the possession of Her Majesty's Government that the Governments of Egypt and Israel are producing small missiles with a radioactive fall-out.

§ Q4. Mr. Grimond
asked the Prime Minister what steps Her Majesty's Government propose to take to stop the spread of nuclear weapons in the Middle and Near East; and if he will make a statement on relations with Egypt and Her Majesty's Government's policy towards her.

§ The Prime Minister
We have no information that the Government of the United Arab Republic or Israel have decided to produce or are about to acquire nuclear weapons of any kind. An agreement to ban the dissemination of nuclear weapons is important for the security not only of the Middle East but of the whole world and we are trying to achieve such an agreement at the Geneva Disarmament Conference.
Since the resumption of diplomatic relations, we have made every effort to establish friendly and businesslike relations with the United Arab Republic. President Nasser's recent speeches and declarations have inevitably caused a setback to our efforts, but we will not be diverted either from our peaceful pur- 1452 poses or from our duty to protect our friends to whom we have treaty obligations.

§ Mr. Henderson
Does not the real danger lie in the fact that German scientists in the employment of the Egyptian Government are working on the development and production of rockets and other missiles, which can only lead to an intensification of the arms race between Israel and Egypt and upset stability in the Middle East? Would not the Prime Minister agree that this all underlines the urgency of President Johnson's proposal for securing an agreement to freeze the production of all vehicles of delivery, including rockets?

§ The Prime Minister
I think that it is very important to try to get non-dissemination agreements. I absolutely agree with the right hon. and learned Gentleman on that. I take it that his Question is really talking about nuclear weapons—that is, nuclear warheads. We have no evidence that either Israel or Egypt is trying to produce weapons of that kind.

§ Mr. Grimond
Is it not clear that, though they may not be producing these weapons now, they will soon be in a position to do so, and does not this make it necessary to look again at the Tripartite Declaration about arms for the Middle East? Would the Prime Minister consider consulting the signatories to that Declaration and other interested Powers as to whether it can now be made a reality? We welcome the Prime Minister's statement about our relations with the United Arab Republic, but can he give an assurance that the spirit of Suez is finally laid?

§ The Prime Minister
I think Suez was laid long ago. The state of affairs in the Middle East does not depend on our good will alone. There must be some reciprocity. We have seen precious little of this up to now. The right hon. Gentleman said that one or other of these countries—Egypt or Israel—is likely to get nuclear weapons quite soon. This is not at present our view.

Mr. H. Wilson
I agree with the Prime Minister about the importance of an agreement to stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons, but does not the Prime Minister remember that we on this side 1453 of the House repeatedly pressed on the Government two years ago and more the dangers inherent in all these German scientists working on missiles in Egypt and asked the Government to take it up urgently with the German Government at that time? Will the Prime Minister say whether this was done, and with what result? In addition to the world-wide anti-proliferation agreement, does not the right hon. Gentleman feel that it would have been wise, and that it would still be wise, as we have frequently suggested, to try to get specific areas of the world to be agreed as being nuclear-free areas, including the Middle East, including Central Europe, and including perhaps the whole Continent of Africa?

§ The Prime Minister:
If the countries in any particular area wish to form themselves into a nuclear-free zone, that would certainly be supported by Her Majesty's Government. We are trying very hard to get a wider agreement at Geneva, which is wanted.

§ Mr. Kershaw
Is my right hon. Friend able to form any estimate of how far the very large American subventions to the U.A.R. assist it in this very expensive research?

§ The Prime Minister
I do not think I would wish to comment on that at present. What we are trying to do is to get the countries of the Middle East to live at peace with each other and ourselves. If frontiers are respected and subversion is abandoned, we have some hope of doing this, otherwise very little.

Mr. H. Wilson
Does not the Prime Minister feel that it is not enough just to sit back and wait, for example, for the countries of the Middle East to get together and agree that it would be nice to have a nuclear-free zone? Does he not feel that the degree of fear and mistrust which Israel and her Arab neighbours have for one another make it quite unrealistic to talk in these terms? Should not the Government now, belatedly, be taking the initiative in trying to get a world agreement and world pressure to give confidence in areas such as that that there will be these areas totally free of nuclear weapons now and for all time in the future?

§ The Prime Minister
Yes. The objective I have is exactly the same as 1454 that of the right hon. Gentleman. He must remember that these nations are independent nations. They are capable of making up their own minds. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh."] I hope they are. There was a proposal among the African countries to have a nuclear-free zone in Africa, but it got nowhere. We must wait and see if these Middle East countries can agree to this.

§ Sir C. Osborne
Would my right hon. Friend agree that the greatest danger to world agreement comes from China, which is prepared to give of her resources much more freely than Moscow is? Is any attempt being made between the Americans, ourselves and the Russians to bring the Chinese into agreement on this world-wide problem?

§ The Prime Minister
If we could get agreement among the countries talking at Geneva, then there is a proposal in the United States disarmament plan that China should be brought in on it. So there is very little difficulty about this, provided that there is agreement among, themselves. Even then, I do not think that the Chinese would join a non-dissemination agreement; but that remains to be seen.

§ Mr. Wigg
When the right hon. Gentleman informed the House that he wanted good relations with the United Arab Republic and that the spirit of Suez had been finally laid, had he in mind the statement he made in a broadcast in Ottawa on 11th February, when he pleaded and expressed regret that he was not allowed to do what he wanted to do with Egypt without being interfered with?

§ The Prime Minister
If I remember rightly, I was asked a question about the American attitude to our policies at the time. I expressed the opinion that, on the whole, it would have been better if they had left us alone.