HC Deb 27 January 1964 vol 688 cc36-9
Mr. J. Morris

(by Private Notice) asked the Minister of Labour if he will make a statement on the industrial dispute at the Steel Company of Wales.

The Minister of Labour (Mr. J. B. Godber)

At an earlier stage I succeeded in bringing the parties together. As this did not result in progress, the Trades Union Congress put forward certain proposals which were not accepted by the workers concerned.

Subsequent to this, in the latter part of last week, I saw the leaders of both sides again separately in an endeavour to find some common ground between them. I am continuing my efforts.

Mr. Morris

I appreciate the Minister's efforts, but will he not agree that any further delay in reaching an agreement upon whether work can be resumed is not in the interests of the men, the company, or the nation? Is he aware that my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition took the initiative at Swansea on Saturday, when he suggested a court of inquiry? Can the right hon. Gentleman say when he will devise the machinery, a court or some other body, for ending what both sides now regard as a deadlock?

Mr. Godber

I agree with the first part of the question. This is a very grievous dispute which is causing grave harm to many people, who are not directly affected, and to the nation's economy, and I have been doing all I can to resolve it.

Of course, I observed what the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition said on Saturday. It has been suggested previously on a number of occasions during the dispute. I will continue to consider any suggestions about how to resolve the dispute, but in my actions I must take account of the views of those most closely affected. My main concern is to get the two sides together again in whatever way seems most hopeful for success.

Mr. Gunter

I am sure that the whole House is very appreciative of the earnest and continuing efforts of the Minister in this matter and that we are all indebted to him. However, the nature of his statement today seems to indicate a lack of appreciation of the fact that time is not on his side. If he cannot bring these conflicting interests together within the next two or three days, he owes it to the House and the nation to use the full authority of his office to institute a most searching inquiry into the real causes of the dispute, the strange and involved methods of management and the whole of the complications which arise from the craft disputes in this matter.

I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, within the next two or three days, he will let the House know that he is prepared to use his full authority to bring the two sides together, whether they want it or not.

Mr. Godber

If my previous reply did not reveal a sense of urgency, I was failing in my duty, for I have certainly had this acutely in mind since the dispute started and I have been trying very hard the whole time to get the two sides together.

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is aware of the very great difficulties in this dispute and of the differences of view between the different sections of workers who are involved. That is one of the difficulties facing me.

Of course, I will take into account all that the hon. Gentleman has said. I am seeking at this very moment to find a way to move forward. I accept what he said about the need to take some positive step and I have very much in mind all the facts which have been put forward.

Mr. J. Griffiths

I speak with some knowledge of this area and I ask the right hon. Gentleman to appreciate that this is a matter of very great importance. Is he aware that the time has come to act decisively and that if he misses the present opportunity to reach a settlement, he will miss the best opportunity he has had since the beginning of the dispute?

Mr. Godber

As I said earlier, I must take account of the views of those directly concerned—I am thinking of the unions directly concerned, as well as others. I assure the House that I shall lose no opportunity whatever and that I am as desperately anxious as anybody to solve this problem. However, I must consider it in relation to the different views which are taken. I have said that I will consider these points and that I am looking at them urgently. I do not think that I can go further than that.

Mr. H. Wilson

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some of us, who were in that area on Saturday and who could feel the tenseness of the problem and the difficulties to which he referred, at any rate formed the impression that there would be widespread support there for quick action of the kind that has been proposed, and that, while we could not be certain that this would lead to a return to work, there was a very warm reception of the idea that if the right hon. Gentleman would set up a very high-powered court of inquiry—not an ordinary one in this case—there would be very many there, including some union leaders, who would feel that this provided a basis for a return to work?

Further, is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the way in which this was put forward in Swansea one had in mind his difficulties in negotiating terms of reference, and that, again, there seemed to be widespread support for the idea that if he could not negotiate agreed terms of reference, if he came right out and imposed his own, that might be a great deal more popular than might appear to him from the day-to-day negotiations with which he has been involved?

Mr. Godber

I fully accept the right hon. Gentleman's last point. It may be necessary to do just that.

In reply to the earlier part of his question, I have been in close touch with all sections in that area, including some of the union leaders. There is not complete unanimity of view among them—there never will be, of course—and I must make the best judgment I can. I will bear in mind what has been said in the House.