HC Deb 06 March 1963 vol 673 cc499-513
Mr. Whitelaw

I beg to move, in page 4, line 5, to leave out from the beginning to "shall" in line 9 and to insert: The number of persons habitually employed at a time to work in such a room as aforesaid". Would it be in order, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, to discuss at the same time the Amendment in line 18, leave out from "to" to end of line 19, and the Amendment in line 21, at end insert: and (c) shall not, in the case of a room comprised in or constituting, premises of any class (being a room which at the passing of this Act is comprised in, or constitutes premises to which this Act applies), have effect until the expiration of the period of three years beginning with the day on which the said subsection (1) comes into force as respects premises of that class". and also the Amendment to that Amendment tabled by the hon. Member for East Ham, North (Mr. Prentice), to leave out "three years" and insert "one year"? They all seem to go together.

Mr. Padley

I take it that the Opposition Amendment, in page 4, to leave out lines 18 to 21, is included.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

If it is agreeable to the House, that may be done.

Mr. Whitelaw

At the end of the debate in Standing Committee on an Amendment to reduce the period of five years before subsection (2) of Clause 5 becomes operative, I undertook that my right hon. Friend would consider all the arguments which had been advanced for a reduction in the period. In addition to those arguments—

Mr. MacDermot

On a point of order. Mr. Deputy-Speaker. I am confused about what we are discussing. A moment ago my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Mr. Padley) referred to the Opposition Amendment in page 4, leave out lines 18 to 21, and, I think, led you into assenting to the proposition that we were discussing that Amendment. As I understand it, the Parliamentary Secretary asked that we should discuss with the Amendment which has been moved the Government Amendments to lines 18 and 21 and the Opposition Amendment to the last Government Amendment mentioned. Thus, as I understand it, we are not discussing the Opposition Amendment in page 4, leave out lines 18 to 21.

Mr. Whitelaw

I am sorry if the fault was mine. The position is as stated by the hon. Member for Derby, North (Mr. MacDermot).

In addition to the arguments in Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Mitcham (Mr. R. Carr) and my hon. Friend the Member for Rutland and Stamford (Mr. K. Lewis) raised another important point on Second Reading, suggesting that when the Bill becomes law new buildings ought to conform at once to the standards laid down, since the difficulties inherent in bringing old buildings up to date could not be invoked for them. This Amendment is the result of our considerations of the discussions on Second Reading and in Committee.

Subsection (1) of Clause 5 will be brought into force probably about a year after the Royal Assent. Subsection (2), which lays down the formula of 40 sq. ft., will apply immediately to a room which was not occupied as office, shop or railway premises at the date of the Royal Assent. For rooms in use as such premises at the date of the Royal Assent, there will be a period of grace, which the Amendment to line 21 reduces to three years, starting from the date when subsection (1) of Clause 5 is brought into force. This will be about three years from the summer of 1964.

This arrangement goes a long way to meet the point made by various hon. Members on Second Reading and in Committee, and I commend it to the House. The hon. Member for East Ham, North (Mr. Prentice) and the hon. Member for Ogmore (Mr. Padley) and other hon. Members seek to reduce the period of grace to one year. We had considerable argument about this in Committee, but I cannot accept that it would be right to reduce it further.

Of course it is true that the period of grace will not begin until the summer of 1964, and that therefore the period we are discussing is somewhat longer in fact. But I think that in seeking to reduce the period to one year hon. Members are under-estimating the considerable difficulties which this requirement may cause in the case of some of the old buildings.

We have dealt with the new buildings which will be put up from the time of the Royal Assent. In some of the old buildings these provisions will cause considerable difficulties and may well demand structural alterations. In these circumstances it is only fair to give the occupiers a reasonable time in which to make their plans, and possibly to build an extension or, indeed, in some cases to search for new premises altogether.

It may be argued that it will be possible to reduce the general power to one year and then to exempt buildings where there may be very real difficulties. But I do not think that argument squares with another argument put by hon. Members opposite, that exemption powers should not be used at all, or at most extremely sparingly. We have always said that we have no desire to use exemption powers except in very limited cases. Therefore, we have put down this general provision for three years. We think that is the right balance and that we should not, therefore, require exemptions from it.

In these circumstances, I hope that the House will agree to the period of three years and will not accept the proposal to reduce it to one year.

Mr. Padley

The provisions about overcrowding are rather less favourable than those recommended by the Gowers Committee. The Clause proposes 40 sq. ft. or 400 cubic ft. per person. The Gowers Committee sat in the late 1940s and reported in 1949. This House has been discussing the implementation of the recommendations of that Report for nearly 14 years. It is not true to say, therefore, that the occupiers of these "Black Hole of Calcutta" premises have not had adequate warning.

That is why we felt that it was quite intolerable to wait for five years—the period the Government originally proposed—and feel it intolerable that we should wait for three years. The right course is to allow one year and then for the Government, if they can find an exception justifying intervention, to apply the exemption Clause.

8.15 p.m.

I accept that my hon. Friends and I have always argued that the exemption Clause should be used sparingly, if at all, and I doubt if there will be many cases in which a Minister with progressive ideas will want to apply the Clause. Legislation laying down a standard of 40 sq. ft. or 400 cubic ft. per person has been promised by one Government or another for 12 years, so adequate notice has been given.

We feel so strongly on this that if the Minister makes no further concession or offer to re-examine the position in another place, we shall have to divide the House.

Mr. MacDermot

The Parliamentary Secretary has justified this extraordinary provision for a three-year exemption by saying that he wants to comply with our request not to have to use exemption provisions. This is an extraordinary argument. If he accepts our plea that he should be chary of using exemption provisions, why does he write a three-year exemption into the Bill itself? Quite apart from the exemption provisions, we find that Clause 78, which deals with the question of when the Bill shall come into operation, says: This Act shall come into operation on such day as the Minister may by order appoint, and different days may be appointed for the coming into operation of different provisions, of a particular provision in relation to premises of different classes or of a particular provision for different purposes. Quite apart from any question of exemptions, this gives other power and facility to the Minister to delay the coming into operation of this provision in Clause 5 if it is unreasonable to bring it into operation at the same time as the general provisions of the Act as a whole. Why, therefore, does he tie himself to not being able to bring this provision into force until three years after the Act has come into force?

It will be about one year before the Act as a whole comes into operation, so that in effect he is tying himself to a four-year period, although he already has power to delay the coming into force of Clause 5 under the provisions of Clause 78. This is unreasonable. The sensible thing to do, if it is necessary to have a provision of this kind, is to make it as short as possible, accepting our Amendment for a one-year period. If, when the time came for bringing the Act into force, he felt that for the premises as a whole or for a class of them this would not be workable, he could then use his powers under Clause 78.

Miss Alice Bacon (Leeds, South-East)

I hope that the Minister will accept our proposal for a one-year period. I hesitate to intervene since this matter was taken over from a Home Office Bill, but I do so because I am one of the few remaining members of the Gowers Committee in this House. As my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Mr. Padley) said, the Gowers Committee sat in 1949, and it is 14 years since we made our Report, yet we are to allow another three years after the passing of the Act before applying these conditions. We shall certainly support my hon. Friend's Amendment.

Mr. Whitelaw

Perhaps I might take this opportunity of welcoming the intervention of the hon. Lady the Member for Leeds, South-East (Miss Bacon). In view of her distinguished membership of the Gowers Committee we are glad to see her taking part in our deliberations, and I am sure that it would be the wish of my right hon. Friend, and all hon. Members, to say how pleased we are to see her.

The hon. Member for Derby, North (Mr. MacDermot) accused me of using an extraordinary argument. For once I am going to throw the words back at him and say that he has used an extraordinary argument. He has suggested that instead of having a three-year period of grace we should use Clause 78 to delay the coming into effect of the whole of Clause 5. I remind him that if we did that we should delay the coming into effect of Clause 5 (1), which I am sure is the last thing he would wish to do.

Mr. MacDermot

But surely the Amendment in line 9 abolishes subsection (1)? It does not exist any more.

Mr. Whitelaw

I do not think that I shall seek to argue further with the hon. Gentleman, although I do not accept what he says.

I come back to my main point, which is that we have reduced the period as far as we thought was possible from five years to three years. We do not feel able to go further, and, therefore, despite what the hon. Lady said, I must resist the Amendment to bring the period down to one year.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

Does the hon. Member for Ogmore (Mr. Padley) wish to move the Amendment in page 4, to leave out lines 18 to 21?

Mr. Whitelaw

We have not yet discussed this Amendment.

Mr. Padley

Mr. Deputy-Speaker, is it your wish that I move my Amendment now?

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

It must be taken now.

Mr. Padley

With respect, this Amendment in a sense raises a new issue, but if it has to be taken now, I beg to move, in page 4, to leave out lines 18 to 21.

This is a simple but vital Amendment. I remind the House that Clause 5 lays down a very modest standard of 40 sq. ft., or 400 cu. ft., as the minimum space for each worker. Subsection (3, b) says that any room to which the public are invited to resort is excluded fom these provisions. This means that shops and offices such as bank premises to which the public are invited to resort are excluded.

I find it incomprehensible that the Minister and his advisers should have decided to put in paragraph (b). The Gowers Committee said that the case was as strong with regard to shops as it was with regard to offices, and if we apply common sense, a commodity which often is not applied in the drafting of Parliamentary Bills, surely in a room, be it a bank office or a shop, in which the workers as well as the public will take up space, it is doubly necessary to ensure that this modest minimum of 40 sq. ft. or 400 cu. ft. exists for the workers employed there.

There are probably not many shops, and perhaps still fewer bank offices, to which tie public resort and in which the workers would need this protection, but that makes it all the more incomprehensible why the Minister and his advisers have deemed it necessary to exclude bank offices, shops, and so on. I hope that the Minister will at least give an undertaking to examine this again between now and the further stages of the Bill. If not, again this is an issue upon which we feel strongly, and we shall divide the House.

Mr. MacDermot

Like my hon. Friend the Member for Ogmore (Mr. Padley), I am mystified by the need for subsection (3, b). If the principle is accepted, as it is in this Clause, that people should not be asked to work in premises unless there are at least 40 sq. ft. or 400 cu. ft. per working person, why does a worker's need for that amount of space become less because the public have resort to the place where he is working? Surely the need is all the greater? The public do not come into the sum at all. To arrive at the sum of what constitutes overcrowding, one has to refer only to the number of persons habitually employed, so why does one need less protection against overcrowding if the public are to be allowed to crowd in as well?

Mr. Cyril Bence (Dumbartonshire, East)

I might get this wrong, but what my hon. Friend the Member for Derby, North (Mr. MacDermot) said frightened me. Do I understand that if a worker is employed in an office to which the public are not admitted, he gets 400 cu. ft., but if somebody opens the door and lets in the public he has to work in a smaller space?

Mr. MacDermot


Mr. Bence

Should not there be an Amendment to provide more space if the public are allowed into the room? There ought to be an explanation for this, because, as a layman, and as a visitor to this debate, I want an explanation.

Mr. Whitelaw

If I were to get involved with the hon. Member for Dunbartonshire, East (Mr. Bence) it would not be the first time I had been involved with him, and if I were, I might be worsted as I was on a previous, and perhaps more important electoral occasion. I shall not follow him on this occasion.

The hon. Member for Derby, North (Mr. MacDermot) was wrong when he sought to score off me about subsection (1) and I hope that lie will look at this again. Subsection (1) remains. The Amendment was in page 4, line 5, whereas subsection (1) is in page 4, line 1. It is very important that that subsection should remain, because it applies to the people whom we are discussing in this Amendment.

8.30 p.m.

We considered carefully whether the additional safeguard—the 40 sq. ft. formula in subsection (2)—could or should be applied to rooms to which members of the public are invited to resort. Although hon. Members feel strongly on the matter I am sure that they agree that certain difficulties are involved.

The first would be to define the working space. In many shops the assistants are not confined to the area behind the counters, but walk about in older to help customers in the central area. In such cases we should have to have regard to the whole room, and not simply to the area behind the counters. Taking the number of employees only, in the whole room, the ratio of employees to space in rooms frequented by the public would usually be far in excess of the minimum standards laid down in subsection (2). I am sure hon. Members accept that. We must bear in mind that the chief purpose of the Clause is to assist in the maintenance of a healthy atmosphere, and in many shops the number of customers greatly exceeds the number of employees. It would therefore be wholly unrealistic to apply a formula to employees only, since we could place no limitation on the entry of the public.

I do not think that there is anything between us in our efforts to provide this safeguard, by way of the 40 sq. ft. formula, for as many people as possible, but I suggest that for the reasons I have given it would be extremely difficult to do what is proposed and extend the formula to cover people employed in shops. In those circumstances, I am afraid that I must ask the House to resist the Amendment.

Question put, That the words proposed to be left out, to the word "a" in line 18, stand part of the Bill: —

The House divided: Ayes 185, Noes 145.

Division No. 70.] AYES [8.32 p.m.
Agnew, Sir Peter Goodhart, Philip Maydon, Lt.-cmdr. S. L. C.
Allason, James Goodhew, Victor Mills, Stratton
Arbuthnot, John Gower, Raymond Miscampbell, Norman
Awdry, Daniel (Chippenham) Grant-Ferris, R. Montgomery, Fergus
Barlow, Sir John Green, Alan More, Jasper (Ludlow)
Batsford, Brian Grosvenor, Lt.-Col. R. G. Morgan, William
Baxter, Sir Beverley (Southgate) Hall, John (Wycombe) Nabarro, Gerald
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gos & Fhm) Hamilton, Michael (Wellingborough) Neave, Airey
Berkeley, Humphry Hare, Rt. Hon. John Noble, Rt. Hon. Michael
Bevins, Rt. Hon. Reginald Harrison, Brian (Maldon) Oakshott, Sir Hendrie
Biffen, John Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye) Osborn, John (Hallam)
Biggs-Davison, John Harvey, Sir Arthur Vere (Macclesf'd) Page, Graham (Crosby)
Bingham, R. M. Harvey, John (Walthamstow, E.) Partridge, E.
Bishop, F. P. Harvie, Anderson, Miss Pearson, Frank (Clitheroe)
Bossom, Hon. Clive Hastings, Stephen Peel, John
Bourne-Arton, A. Hay, John Percival, Ian
Box, Donald Hendry, Forbes pickthorn, Sir Kenneth
Braine, Bernard Hill, Mrs. Eveline (Wythenshawe) Pilkington, Sir Richard
Brown, Alan (Tottenham) Hill, J. E. B. (S. Norfolk) Pitman, Sir James
Bryan, Paul Hirst, Geoffrey Pitt, Dame Edith
Buck, Antony Hobson, Sir John Pott, Percivall
Bullard, Denys Hocking Philip N. Price, David (Eastleigh)
Campbell, Gordon (Moray & Nairn) Holland, Philip Prior, J. M. L.
Carr, Robert (Mitcham) Hollingworth, John Prior-Palmer, Brig. Sir Otho
Gary, Sir Robert Hopkins, Alan Pym, Francis
Chichester-Clark, R. Hornby, R. P. Redmayne, Rt. Hon. Martin
Clark, William (Nottingham, S.) Howard, John (Southampton, Test) Rees, Hugh
Cleaver, Leonard Hughes-Young, Michael Ridley, Hon. Nicholas
Cole, Norman Hulbert, Sir Norman Ridsdale, Julian
Cooke, Robert Hutchison, Michael Clark Rodgers, John (Sevenoaks)
Cordeaux, Lt.-Col. J. K. Iremonger, T. L. St. Clair, M.
Cordle, John Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye) Seymour, Leslie
Corfield, F. V. James, David Sharples, Richard
Coulson, Michael Jenkins, Robert (Dulwich) Smith, Dudley (Br'ntf'd & Chiswick)
Courtney, Cdr. Anthony Johnson, Dr. Donald (Carlisle) Smithers, Peter
Craddock, Sir Beresford (Spelthorne) Johnson, Eric (Blackley) Smyth, Rt. Hon. Brig. Sir John
Critchley, Julian Johnson Smith, Geoffrey Spearman, Sir Alexander
Cunningham, Knox Jones, Arthur (Northants, S.) Speir, Rupert
Currie, G. B. H. Kerans, Cdr. J, s. Stevens, Geoffrey
Dalkeith, Earl of Kershaw, Anthony Storey, Sir Samuel
Dance, James Kirk, Peter Studholme, Sir Henry
d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, sir Henry Kitson, Timothy Talbot, John E.
Deedes, Rt. Hon. W. F. Leather, Sir Edwin Taylor, Edwin (Bolton, E.)
du Cann, Edward Leburn, Gilmour Taylor, Frank (M'ch'st'r, Moss Side)
Duncan, Sir James Lewls, Kenneth (Rutland) Teeling, Sir William
Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshalton) Lilley, F. J. P. Temple, John M.
Elliott, R. W. (Nwcstle-upon-Tyne, N.) Lindsay, Sir Martin Thomas, Sir Leslie (Canterbury)
Errington, Sir Eric Longden, Gilbert Thompson, Sir Kenneth (Walton)
Farey-Jones, F. W. Loveys, Walter H. Thornton-Kemsley, Sir Colin
Farr, John Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Touche, Rt. Hon. Sir Gordon
Finlay, Graeme McLaren, Martin Turner, Colin
Fisher, Nigel Maddan, Martin Turton, Rt. Hon. R. H.
Galbraith, Hon. T. G. D. Maitland, Sir John Tweedsmuir, Lady
Gammans, Lady Markham, Major Sir Frank van Straubenzee, W. R.
George, J. C. (Pollok) Marten, Neil Vane, W. M. F.
Gibson-Watt, David Mathew, Robert (Honiton) Wakefield, Sir Wavell
Gilmour, Ian (Norfolk Central) Matthews, Gordon (Meriden) Walder, David
Gilmour, Sir John (East Fife) Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. Walker, Peter
Wall, Patrick Williams, Dudley (Exeter) Worsley, Marcus
Ward, Dame Irene Williams, Paul (Sunderland, S.)
Webster, David Wills, Sir Gerald (Bridgwater) TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Wells, John (Maidstone) Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro) Mr. Ian Fraser and Mr. MacArthur.
Whitelaw, William Woollam, John
Ainsley, William Harper, Joseph Parker, John
Awbery, Stan (Bristol, Central) Hart, Mrs. Judith Pearson, Arthur (Pontypridd)
Bacon, Miss Alice Hayman, F. H. Pentland, Norman
Barnett, Guy Henderson, Rt. Hn. Arthur (RwlyRegls) popplewell, Ernest
Beaney, Alan Holman, Percy Prentice, R. E.
Bence, Cyril Holt, Arthur Pursey, Cmdr. Harry
Bennett, J. (Glasgow, Bridgeton) Houghton, Douglas Rankin, John
Benson, Sir George Hughes, Cledwyn (Anglesey) Redhead, E. C.
Blackburn, F. Hughes, Emrys (s. Ayrshire) Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvon)
Blyton, William Hunter, A. E. Robertson, John (Paisley)
Boardman, H. Hynd, H. (Accrington) Rodgers, W. T. (Stockton)
Bottomley, Rt. Hon. A. G. Hynd, John (Attercliffe) Short, Edward
Bowden, Rt. Hn. H. W. (Leic[...]. S. W.) Irving, Sydney (Dartford) Silverman, Julius (Aston)
Bowen, Roderic (Cardigan) Jay Rt. Hon. Douglas Silverman, Sydney (Nelson)
Bowles, Frank Jeger, George Slater, Mrs. Harriet (Stoke, N.)
Boyden, James Johnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.) Slater, Joseph (Sedgefield)
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. Jones, Rt. Hn. A. Creech (Wakefield) Small, William
Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. Jones, Dan (Burnley) Smith, Ellis (Stoke, S.)
Brown, Thomas (Ince) Jones, Elwyn (West Ham, S.) Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank
Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) Jones, J. Idwal (Wrexham) Spriggs, Leslie
Castle, Mrs. Barbara Jones, T. W. (Merioneth) Steele, Thomas
Collick, Percy Kelley, Richard Stewart, Michael (Fulham)
Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) King, Dr. Horace Swingler, Stephen
Cronin, John Lawson, George Taverne, D.
Crosland, Anthony Lee, Frederick (Newton) Taylor, Bernard (Mansfield)
Cullen, Mrs. Alice Lever, L. M. (Ardwick) Thompson, Dr. Alan (Dunfermline)
Dalyell, Tam Lubbock, Eric Thomson, G. M. (Dundee, E.)
Darling, George Mabon Dr. J. Dickson Thornton, Ernest
Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) McCann, John Tomney, Frank
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) MacDermot, Niall Wade, Donald
Delargy, Hugh McInnes, James Wainwright, Edwin
Dempsey, James McKay, John (Wallsend) Warbey, William
Diamond, John Macpherson, Malcolm (Stirling) Watkins, Tudor
Dodds, Norman Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) Whitlock, William
Edwards, Rt. Hon. Ness (Caerphilly) Malialieu, J. p. W. (Huddersfield, E.) Wilkins, W. A.
Edwards, Robert (Bilston) Manuel, Archie Willey, Frederick
Finch, Harold Mapp, Charles Williams, D. J. (Neath)
Fitch, Alan Marsh, Richard Williams, Ll. (Abertillery)
Fletcher, Eric Mason, Roy Williams, W. R. (Openshaw)
Forman, J. C. Mendelson, J. J. Willis, E. G. (Edinburgh, E.)
Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton) Millan, Bruce Wilson, Rt. Hon. Harold (Huyton)
Gordon Walker, Rt. Hon. P. C. Milne, Edward Winterbottom, R. E.
Gourlay, Harry Mitchlson, G. R. Woodburn, Rt. Hon. A.
Griffiths, David (Rother Valley) Moyle, Arthur Woof, Robert
Griffiths, W. (Exchange) Mulley, Frederick Yates, Victor (Ladywood)
Grimond, Rt. Hon. J. Neal, Harold
Gunter, Ray Noel-Baker, Francis (Swindon) TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Hale, Leslie (Oldham, W.) Oram, A. E. Mr. Charles A. Howell and
Hamilton, William (West Fife) Oswald, Thomas Mr. Grey.
Hannan, William Padley, W. E.

Amendment made: In page 4, line 18, leave out from "to" to end of line 19.—[Mr. Hare.]

Amendment proposed: In page line 21, at the end to insert: and (c) shall not, in the case of a room comprised in or constituting, premises of any class (being a room which at the passing of this Act is comprised in, or constitutes premises to which this Act applies), have effect until the expiration of the period of three years beginning with the day on which the said subsection (1) comes into force as

respects premises of that class".—[Mr. Hare.]

Mr. Padley

I beg to move, as an Amendment to the proposed Amendment, to leave out "three years" and to insert "one year".

Question put, That "three years" stand part of the proposed Amendment:—

The House divided: Ayes 184, Noes 144.

Division No. 71.] AYES [8.41 p.m.
Agnew, Sir Peter Barlow, Sir John Berkeley, Humphry
Allason, James Batsford, Brian Bevins, Rt. Hon. Reginald
Arbuthnot, John Baxter, Sir Beverley (Southgate) Biffen, John
Awdry, Daniel (Chippenham) Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gos & Fhm) Biggs-Davison, John
Bingham, R. M. Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye) Partridge, E.
Bishop, F. P. Harvey, Sir Arthur Vere (Macclesf'd) Pearson, Frank (Clitheroe)
Bossom, Clive Harvey, John (Walthamstow, E.) Peel, John
Bourne-Arton, A. Harvie Anderson, Miss Percival, Ian
Box, Donald Hastings, Stephen Pickthorn, Sir Kenneth
Braine, Bernard Hay, John Pilkington, Sir Richard
Bryan, Paul Hendry, Forbes Pitman, Sir James
Buck, Antony Hill, Mrs. Eveline (Wythenahawe) Pitt, Dame Edith
Bullard, Denys Hirst, Geoffrey Price, David (Eastleigh)
Campbell, Gordon (Moray & Nairn) Hobson, Sir John Prior, J. M. L.
Carr, Robert (Mitcham) Hocking, Philip N. Prior-palmer, Brig. Sir Otho
Cary, Sir Robert Holland, Philip Pym, Francis
Chichester-Clark, R. Hollingworth, John Redmayne, Rt. Hon. Martin
Clark, William (Nottingham, S.) Hopkins, Alan Ridley, Hon. Nicholas
Cleaver, Leonard Hornby, R. P. Ridsdale, Julian
Cole, Norman Howard, John (Southampton, Test) Rodgera, John (Sevenoaks)
Cooke, Robert Hughes-Young, Michael St. Clair, M.
Cordeaux, Lt.-Col. J. K. Hulbert, Sir Norman Seymour, Leslie
Cordle, John Hutchison, Michael Clark Sharples, Richard
Corfield, F. V. Iremonger, T. L. Smith, Dudley (Br'ntf'd & Chlswick)
Coulson, Michael Irvine Bryant Godman (Rye) Smithers, Peter
Courtney, Cdr. Anthony James, David Smyth, Rt. Hon. Brig. Sir John
Craddock, Sir Beresford Johnson, Dr. Donald (Carlisle) Spearman, Sir Alexander
Critchley, Julian Johnson, Eric (Blackley) Speir, Rupert
Cunningham, Knox Johnson Smith, Geoffrey Stevens, Geoffrey
Curran, Charles Jones, Arthur (Northants, S.) Storey, Sir Samuel
Currie, G. B. H. Kerans, Cdr. J. S. studholme, Sir Henry
Dalkeith, Earl of Kershaw, Anthony Talbot, John E.
Dance, James Kirk, Peter Tapsell, Peter
d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry Kitson, Timothy Taylor, Edwin (Bolton, E.)
Deedes, Rt. Hon. W. F. Leather, Sir Edwin Taylor, Frank (M'ch'st'r, Mess Side)
du Cann, Edward Leburn, Gilmour Teeling, Sir William
Duncan, Sir James Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) Temple, John M.
Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshalton) Lilley, F, J. p. Thomas, Leslie (Canterbury)
Elliott, R. W. (Nwcastle-upon-Tyne, N.) Lindsay, Sir Martin Thompson, Kenneth (Walton)
Errington, Sir Eric Longden, Gilbert Thornton-Kemsley, Sir Colin
Loveys, Walter H. Touche, Rt. Hon. Sir Gordon
Farey-Jones, F. W. Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Turner, Colin
Farr, John McLaren, Martin Turton, Rt. Hon. R. H.
Finlay, Graeme Maddan, Martin Tweedsmuir, Lady
Fisher, Nigel Maitland, Sir John van Straubenzee, W. R.
Fraser, Ian (Plymouth, Sutton) Markham, Major Sir Frank Vane, W. M. F.
Galbraith, Hon. T. G. D. Marten, Neil Wakefield, Sir Wavell
Gammans, Lady Mathew, Robert (Honiton) Walder, David
George, J. C. (Pollok) Matthews, Gordon (Meriden) Walker, Peter
Gibson-Watt, David Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. Wall, Patrick
Gilmour, Ian (Norfolk Central) Maydon, Lt.-Cmdr. S. L. C. Ward, Dame Irene
Gilmour, Sir John (East Fife) Mills, Stratton Webster, David
Goodhart, Philip Miscampbell, Norman Wells, John (Maidstone)
Goodhew, Victor Montgomery, Fergus Whitelaw, William
Gower, Raymond More, Jasper (Ludlow) Williams, Dudley (Exeter)
Grant-Ferris, R. Morgan, William Williams, Paul (Sunderland, S.)
Green, Alan Nabarro, Sir Gerald Wills, Sir Gerald (Bridgwater)
Grosvenor, Lt.-Col. R. G. Neave, Alrey Wilson, Geoffrey (Truro)
Gurden, Harold Noble, Rt. Hon. Michael Woollam, John
Hall, John (Wycombe) Oakshott, Sir Hendrie Worsley, Marcus
Hamilton, Michael (Wellingborough) Osborn, John (Hallam)
Hare, Rt. Hon. John Page, Graham (Crosby) TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Mr. Rees and Mr. MacArthur.
Ainsley, William Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) Griffiths, David (Rother Valley)
Awbery, Stan (Bristol Central) Cronin, John Griffiths, W. (Exchange)
Bacon, Miss Alice Crosland, Anthony Grimond, Rt. Hon. J.
Barnett, Guy Cullen, Mrs. Alice Gunter, Ray
Beaney, Alan Dalyell, Tam Hale, Leslie (Oldham, W.)
Bence, Cyril Darling, George Hamilton, William (West Fife)
Bennett, J. (Glasgow, Bridgeton) Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) Hannan, William
Benson, Sir George Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Harper, Joseph
Blackburn, F. Delargy, Hugh Hart, Mrs. Judith
Blyton, William Dempsey, James Hayman, F. H.
Boardman, H. Diamond, John Henderson, Rt. Hn. Arthur (Rwly Regis)
Bottomley, Rt. Hon. A. G. Dodds, Norman Holman, Percy
Bowden, Rt. Hn. H. W. (Leics, S. W.) Edwards, Rt. Hon. Hess (Caerphilly) Holt, Arthur
Bowen, Roderic (Cardigan) Edwards, Robert (Bilston) Houghton, Douglas
Bowles, Frank Finch, Harold Hughes, Cledwyn (Anglesey)
Boyden, James Fitch, Alan Hughes, Emrys (S. Ayrshire)
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. Fletcher, Eric Hunter, A. E.
Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. Forman, J. C. Hynd, H. (Accrington)
Brown, Thomas (Ince) Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton) Hynd, John (Attercliffe)
Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) Gordon Walker, Rt. Hon. P. C. Irving, Sydney (Dartford)
Castle, Mrs. Barbara Gourlay, Harry Jay, Rt. Hon. Douglas
Collick, Percy Grey, Charles Jeger, George
Johnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.) Moyle, Arthur Stewart, Michael (Fulham)
Jones, Rt. Hn. A. Creech (Wakefield) Mulley, Frederick Swingler, Stephen
Jones, Dan (Burnley) Neal, Harold Taverne, D.
Jones, Elwyn (West Ham, S.) Noel-Baker, Francis (Swindon) Taylor, Bernard (Mansheld)
Jones, J. Idwal (Wrexham) Oram, A. E. Thompson, Dr, Alan (Dunfermline)
Jones, T. W. (Merioneth) Oswald, Thomas Thomson, G. M. (Dundee, E.)
Kelley, Richard Padley, W. E. Thornton, Ernest
King, Dr, Horace Parker, John Tomney, Frank
Lawson, George Pearson, Arthur (Pontypridd) Wade, Donald
Lea, Frederick (Newton) Pentland, Norman Wainwright, Edwin
Lever, L. M. (Ardwick) Popplewell, Ernest Warbey, William
Lubbock, Eric Prentice, B. E. Watkins, Tudor
Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson Pursey, Cmdr. Harry Whitlock, William
MacDermot, Niall Redhead, E. C. Wilkins, W. A.
McInnes, James Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvon) Willey, Frederick
McKay, John (Wallsend) Robertson, John (Paisley) Williams, D. J. (Neath)
Williams, Lt. (Abertillery)
MacPherson, Malcolm (Stirling) Rodgers, W. T. (Stockton) Williams, W. R. (Openshaw)
Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) Short, Edward Willis, E. G. (Edinburgh, E.)
Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfietd, E.) Silverman, Julius (Aston) Wilson, Rt. Hon. Harold (Huyton)
Manuel, Archie Silverman, Sydney (Nelson) Winterbottom, R. E.
Mapp, Charles Slater, Mrs. Harriet (Stoke, N.) Woodburn, Rt. Hon. A.
Marsh, Richard Slater, Joseph (Sedgefield) Woof, Robert
Mason, Roy Small, William Yates, Victor (Ladywood)
Mendelson, J. J. Smith, Ellis (Stoke, S.)
Millan, Bruce Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Milne, Edward Spriggs, Leslie Mr. Charles A. Howell and
Mitchison. G. R. Steele, Thomas Mr. McCann.

Proposed words there inserted in the Bill.