HC Deb 06 March 1963 vol 673 cc567-71
Mr. Hare

I beg to move, in page 29, line 44, to leave out from "time" to "be" in line 47.

It might be convenient, Mr. Speaker, to discuss at the same time the following related Amendments, in page 30, lines 5, 11, and 25, the two in line 35, page 31, line 16, and page 49, line 30.

Mr. Speaker

If the House so pleases.

Mr. Hare

I am grateful, Mr. Speaker.

The main Amendment in this group is the one in page 30, line 11, on which most of the other Amendments are consequential. Its object is one on which both sides in Committee were agreed: that employees should be informed when an application for exemption is made under Clause 38 in respect of the premises where the employees are employed and that they should have the right to make representations to the authority empowered to grant the exemption before a decision is made. The principle is entirely reasonable and is one which we intend to follow in our general administration of the Bill: that is, to seek consultation with all interested parties on measures affecting their interests.

Subsection (4B) of the main Amendment sets out a simple procedure to be followed by the person making the application, who normally would be the occupier, to ensure that that purpose is achieved. He has to post a notice in the premises stating the nature of the exemption for which he is applying, the period for which it is sought and the name and address of the relevant authority; and the notice must state that it is open to the employees to make representations to the authority. The notice must be kept posted for fourteen days. We have provided for a fine of up to £20 for non-compliance with these provisions.

The Amendments in page 29, line 44 and in page 30, line 5, are consequential, and the Amendment in page 30, line 25, is a drafting Amendment. The first of the two Amendments in line 35 extends the existing requirement to keep an exemption certificate posted in the premises by specifying that the certificate must be posted so as to be easily seen and read.

The second Amendment in line 35 provides that in refusing an exemption, an authority shall give notice not only to the applicant, but to any persons employed in the premises who have made representations or to representatives of the employed persons. Taken together with the first Amendment in line 35 about the posting of exemption certificates, this ensures that employees will know where they stand.

The Amendment in page 31, line 16, will permit applications to be made for exemption certificates and for such certificates to be granted as soon as a commencement order is made under Clause 78 appointing a date for the coming into force of the provision from which exemption is desired.

The intention is to give occupiers sufficient time to apply for exemptions before the relevant provisions of the Bill are in force concerning the premises in question. In addition, the new subsection (8B) permits the posting of notices of application for exemption in the "common parts" of buildings covered by Clauses 35 and 36. This is necessary because some exemption certificates will be applied for by owners of the buildings concerned.

The Amendment in Clause 71, page 49, line 30, makes the necessary modifications in relation to the Crown in respect of those parts of Clause 38 which are clearly inappropriate.

Mr. Prentice

These Amendments nearly meet the points that were put from this side in Committee. We welcome them for the same reasons as we welcomed the Amendments to Clause 37. Whereas they provided for national consultation with trade unions, employers' organisations, and so on, this set of Amendments provides for what may be described as a local edition of that provision. It provides for more than consultation. It provides for the right to make objections and the right of the individual to object, because this Clause gets down nearer to ground level and applies to individual premises.

Once again we take the view strongly that arty exemptions which are awarded either nationally or locally should be very exceptions, and that in any case in which an exemption is needed, the people whose working lives are affected should have ample right to make representations on the point. We welcome the Amendments and hope that people will be vigilant about these things and will stand up for their rights in matters connected with the Clause.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made: In page 30, line 5, leave out "that person" and insert: the person who, if the exemption were not in force, would be responsible for a contravention in relation to the premises of that provision (being a contravention consisting in a failure to comply with that requirement)". In line 11 at end insert: (4A) An exemption of any premises from a requirement imposed by a provision of this Act shall not be granted or extended under this section—

  1. (a) except upon application made, in such form as may be prescribed by order made by the Minister—
    1. (i) in a case where the grant of an exemption is sought, by the person who would be responsible for a contravention in relation to the premises of that provision (being a contravention consisting in a failure to comply with that requirement)
    2. (ii) in a case where the extension of an exemption is sought, by the person who, if the exemption were not in force, would be responsible as aforesaid;
  2. (b) unless the application is accompanied by a certificate in such form as may be so prescribed, that the obligation to which the applicant is subject by virtue of subsection (4B) (a) below has been complied with; and
  3. (c) until the expiration of the period of fourteen days beginning with the day next following that on which the application is made.
(4B) In relation to an application for the grant or extension of an exemption under this section of any premises, compliance by the applicant with the following requirements shall be requisite, namely—
  1. (a) he must, immediately before the application is made, post in the premises, in such a position, and in such characters, as to be easily seen and read by the persons employed to work in the premises, a notice—
    1. (i) stating that such an application is being made;
      2. 570
    2. (ii) specifying the requirement from which exemption or, as the case may be, further exemption, is being sought;
    3. (iii) specifying the period for which the grant or, as the case may be, the extension, is being sought (or if, where a grant of exemption is being sought under subsection (2) of this section, it be the case that the grant thereof without limit of time is being sought, specifying that fact);
    4. (iv) specifying the name and address of the authority to whom the application is being made and notifying the persons aforesaid that written representations with respect to the application may be made by any of them to that authority before the expiration of the period of fourteen days beginning with the day next following that on which the notice is posted in compliance with this paragraph;
  2. (b) he must keep the said notice posted as aforesaid throughout the last-mentioned period;
and a person making an application under this section who fails to comply with an obligation to which he is, in relation to the application, subject by virtue of this subsection shall be guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds. In line 25 leave out first "of" and insert "imposed by".

In line 35, at end insert in such a position as to be easily seen and read by the persons employed to work in the premises". In line 35, at end insert— (7A) Notice of the refusal by an authority to grant or extend an exemption under this section shall be given by them to the applicant for the grant or extension and also (if it be the case that representations with respect to the application were duly made by the persons employed to work in the premises to which the application related or any of those persons), either individually to such of those persons as duly made representations or to a person appearing to the authority to be representative of such of those persons as duly made representations or to each of a number of persons who appear to the authority to be representative between them of such of those persons as duly made representations. In page 31, line 16, at end insert— (8A) An application for the grant under this section of an exemption of any premises from a requirement imposed by section 5 (2), 6, 9 or 10 (1) of this Act may be made, and such an exemption may be granted, despite the fact that the provision imposing the requirement is not in force, but such an application shall not be entertained unless an order has been made under the following provisions of this Act appointing either in relation to all premises to which this Act applies or in relation to premises of a class within which fall the premises in question, a day for the coming into operation of that provision; and for the purposes of the application of the foregoing provisions of this section to an application made by virtue of this subsection—

  1. (a) references to the authority having power to enforce with respect to the premises the provision imposing the requirement from which exemption is sought shall be construed as referring to the authority who would have power so to enforce that provision if it were in force; and
  2. (b) the reference in subsection (4A) (a) (i) to the person who would be responsible for such a contravention in relation to the premises of that provision as is therein mentioned shall be construed as referring to the person who, if that provision were in force, would be responsible for such a contravention as is so mentioned and the reference in subsection (6) to the person who, if the exemption were not in force, would be responsible as aforesaid shall, if the exemption is granted and the provision in question is not in force at the time of the grant, be similarly construed.
(8B) In relation to an application made under this section with respect to premises which form part of a building to which section 35 or 36 of this Act applies, subsection (4B) above shall have effect with the substitution, for the words in paragraph (a) "post in the premises", of the words "post in the premises or in a part of the building which for the purposes of the said section 35 or the said section 36 (as the case may be) is referred to as a common part of the building.—[Mr. Hare.]